Aibu to think I should be ok to exercise my well behaved dog wherever I like in fields

[Scrowy]

I'm not BU because my dog is a farm dog and the fields are my fields.

Sadly however the local dog owners seem to think that our fields (some with footpaths, some without) are fair game and that they have an equal right to use them as they see fit.

This week we have politely asked 6 people with loose dogs to remove themselves from the pasture we have just separated some lambs into. There is no footpath in that field but it has a nice view.

During lambing time this year we lost 4 lambs and 1 sheep to sheep worrying. About 5 years ago one dog killed 24 lambs in one go. Every week we are aware of minor incidents of sheep worrying, fortunatly most don't result in death but do always result in stress on the animals.

Also this week we have sent some older sheep to slaughter. Out of 30 of them 24 of them were condemned due to Echinococcosis, a disease passed on to sheep from dog poo and only identifiable at slaughter.

Neosporosis is another disease passed on from dog poo do cattle. It causes the cattle to abort their calves.

Letting your dogs poo on farmland is directly putting farms out of business.

Letting your dogs 'play' with sheep causes death, even if your dog doesn't actually maul something at the time.

You wouldn't walk into a shop, knock down a display and break stuff without expecting to have to pay for damages. Why do people think that the countryside is fair game?

I'm all for live and let live, I want people to enjoy the countryside and support it. I also want people to realise that it's not just there for their amusement, that some people are trying to make (an increasingly small and desperate) living from it.

The fact you concede there are more humane ways proves farming is anachronistic already.

There aren't these more humane ways yet, so I haven't conceded that there are.

Don't bloody shoot the dogs!

Coffee have you been wormed recently?

"The fact you concede there are more humane ways proves farming is anachronistic already."

"There aren't these more humane ways yet, so I haven't conceded that there are. "

Read it again and if you still haven't 'got' what you said, I'll 'concede' it's the over-consumption of meat that's responsible for your stupor and not your breeding.

are you going to answer my questions counter?

Counterpoint - I've watched all this with interest but I really do think the level of debate is getting ridiculous.
Please show me the hard academic evidence where carefully-managed grazing is bad for local upland wildlife and ecosystems. Where mass-production of soya etc for use in DAIRY cattle feed (for vegetarians) or soya products (for vegans) is good for rainforests or any other environment. Where suckler herd grazing (sheep and cows) linked to well-run local abbatoirs is inhumane for the animals concerned? From my window I can see mother cows and calves, who spend years happily together with the rest of their herd, roaming freely over hundreds of acres of wildflower-rich grassland. Really, what is cruel or unnatural about that?

Also, you can't just say 'grow crops instead'. In many areas, it would simply not be possible, and it would probably be much worse for the enironment. There is no way in which the ground in the village where I live - barely half an inch of soil in places over ultra-basic volcanic rock - or in many other upland areas is going to be suitable for growing anything arable. And, from what I've seen of arable farmers growing wheat and oilseed rape and sugar beet, some of them use an awful lot more noxious chemicals than upland grazing farmers do. So do farmers growing peas and carrots and cauliflowers and all kinds of veg. In the past, I've seen one arable farmer spraying dead the harmless cowslips along field margins, and helped pick up dozens of dead thrushes and blackbirds after a farmer growing vegetables for humans to eat covered his land with slug pellets.
Yes, in one way it's sad that farm animals have to die to provide food. But, while they are alive, they do an awful lot less environmental damage than irresponsible arable farming. And, unlike battery chickens or factory-farmed dairy cows - both also catering to human food needs - while they are alive they do not suffer.

Small animals now, farm animals later - you can switch, as you have already done. Why would you want to minimise your money-earning opportunities by calling the livestock farming business out for what it really is?

A vet's bread and butter?

Do you know what concede means?

"while they are alive they do not suffer."

B@llsh*t.

Animals living free in nature also suffer.
Hunger.
Predation.
Disease.
Competition.
Accidents.

It's all relative.

I doubt a free range farm animal is less happy than one living in the wild.
Even a stun gun can't be worse than being chased by a pack of wolves and be bitten to death.

You can use bullshit here.

"Have you ever actually met a farmer or been on a farm?

Do you have any personal or professional experience whatsoever of a working farm environment?"

Yes and yes. My gripe is with livestock farmers, first and foremost.

I'm going to take your refusal to answer my questions counterpoint as admission that you do not spend time on farms nor have personal or professional experience of them.

Keep making random untrue statements though, even if you aren't learning from us correcting you I'm sure lots of other people are, and that's actually really great.

ok fine

have you ever been on a Livestock farm or met a livestock farmer?

Since we have acknowledged there are many different types of farms.

That took you a REALLY long time to answer considering it was a very simple answer!!

Be kind.

Platypus thank you for your great contributions to this thread.

As a Townie who married a farmer, I have learned so much from him. I couldn't agree more about how very little most people experience and understand modern farming, because I absolutely was one of those people.

Watching dh work has been a revelation. It is just incredible how hard he works, how difficult profit is to achieve, how much he cares for the land he rents and the animals he owns. I can honestly say I had not one tiny clue about any of this, until we met.

He somehow finds time to promote understanding of his industry at our county show, because he understands and believes in the importance of educating the next generation about where their food comes from.

As a child of the 70s, my knowledge on the subject was laughable. And we still had the milk marketing board in those days, giving us assemblies at school. That was the sum of my knowledge. We don't even have that these days.

I was buying danish bacon and anchor butter FFS, before we met. It never even occurred to me to look at where my food came from. It came from a shop. End of story.

If you ate today, thank a farmer.

And the amazing vets, who are about the only back up that the farmers have left. Who also work crazy hours for far less money than anyone imagines.

Vulgar abuse is no argument, I'm afraid.

Have you ever seen sheep or suckler herds, close up? Have you looked at them, seen how well-fed and contented they are, and how unstressfully they interact with the farmers who look after them? Honestly, they do not suffer. Why should they? They are living as nature intended, roaming freely - all over the local roads at times - with plenty of food and natural spring water in the streams. In the bad weather, they are offered shelter and/or supplementary feeding (cut from local grassland) to help them survive. At lambing or calving time, their owners check on them several times a day and help where necessary - nature is not always kind. Owners also place mineral licks in the pastures - which the animals love - to help provide nutrients for lactation. A healthy mother cow or ewe will live for 10 years or more - that's their natural lifespan. I'm genuinely puzzled. Why/how/in what way do you think the suffer?

"That took you a REALLY long time to answer considering it was a very simple answer!!"

I don't normally choose to answer personal questions. What good has it done you to know?

you know its your beloved arable/ veggie growing farmers that are the ones accused of harming wildlife?

Livestock farmers have nothing to lose financially from the prevalence little birds. Why would they harm them?

We love birds on our farm. They are a nice sign of the seasons passing and their choice to use our land demonstrates that it is a healthy richly biodiverse environment.

counterpoint I will never be a large animal vet again (somewhat sadly). And your absolutely right, we vets only do large animal medicine for its "money making capabilities" And the health implications of ecchinococcus or neospora mean nothing to us, oh no Jeez, what kind of farms have you actually been on?? I have met some people like you in real life- all riled up about animal welfare with very litt!e actual clue or experience about what that actually means. Do you work with animals? Understand the five freedoms? See how well meaning members of the public are the worst culprits in perpetuating the problem? I get the sense there is no point in trying to talk to you, as you know best

All hope is lost Counterpoint - even the children are at it!!

Fantasticmissfoxy

What good has it done you to know?

because I find it hard to believe that anyone who has spent any time around livestock farming could possibly hold the beliefs you do.

I probably would have given you the benefit of the doubt if you admitted were an ill informed townie but strongly believed everything you had read on the internet. The fact you state you have experience of Livestock farming is frankly astonishing.

Have you any examples of real life events you have personally witnessed to make you feel this way about livestock farmers? As short of some waffle about rainforests, huge profits and some made up stuff about antibiotics its not really clear why you hate farmers so much.

BTW, just a reminder that Ecchinococcus granulosus is also very dangerous for you and other humans who are exposed to the eggs in your fields, if they got contaminated.
If they have infected dogs, they may develop hydatid cysts, which can kill.