Aibu to think I should be ok to exercise my well behaved dog wherever I like in fields

[Scrowy]

I'm not BU because my dog is a farm dog and the fields are my fields.

Sadly however the local dog owners seem to think that our fields (some with footpaths, some without) are fair game and that they have an equal right to use them as they see fit.

This week we have politely asked 6 people with loose dogs to remove themselves from the pasture we have just separated some lambs into. There is no footpath in that field but it has a nice view.

During lambing time this year we lost 4 lambs and 1 sheep to sheep worrying. About 5 years ago one dog killed 24 lambs in one go. Every week we are aware of minor incidents of sheep worrying, fortunatly most don't result in death but do always result in stress on the animals.

Also this week we have sent some older sheep to slaughter. Out of 30 of them 24 of them were condemned due to Echinococcosis, a disease passed on to sheep from dog poo and only identifiable at slaughter.

Neosporosis is another disease passed on from dog poo do cattle. It causes the cattle to abort their calves.

Letting your dogs poo on farmland is directly putting farms out of business.

Letting your dogs 'play' with sheep causes death, even if your dog doesn't actually maul something at the time.

You wouldn't walk into a shop, knock down a display and break stuff without expecting to have to pay for damages. Why do people think that the countryside is fair game?

I'm all for live and let live, I want people to enjoy the countryside and support it. I also want people to realise that it's not just there for their amusement, that some people are trying to make (an increasingly small and desperate) living from it.

I'm wondering what the owners of the dogs that Counterpoint feel should be allowed to run free, should feed them on going forwards? If we don't raise any animals for meat, then where will we get the meat for our carnivorous pets. A vegetarian diet is very bad for cats and dogs, they need meat.

"Human beings being omnivorous isn't something that only happened in the past counterpoint"
Where did I say anything of the sort?

" If we don't raise any animals for meat, then where will we get the meat for our carnivorous pets."

When did you last see a domestic cat take down a cow, pig or sheep to eat?

Their natural foods (as with dogs) are rodents, birds, fish ...

Pretty low to blame pets for your anachronistic food palate.

[Hopefully by now, with these further examples, the confused poster has become more familiar with the use of that term.]

Humans eating meat isn't anachronistic counterpoint

Humans eating popcorn all round the edge of this field of conversation :D

Meh I'm out of here for now. Whatever anyone says, Counterpoint will keep on insisting that all meat is bad, all non-arable farmers are bad, and selectively reply to a few of the comments when they think they can make a point.

Dissing someone's Masters degree in a highly relevant subject, and the equating of the destruction of Rain Forest in favour of food crops, were the 2 things that are likely to have proven to most readers of the thread that Counterpoint will twist anything to make their point of view, and will not under any circumstances even consider that what they think they know isn't the complete truth.

I'm so glad that counterpoint has managed to dismiss relevant professional qualifications, use juvenile insults and even tried the 'clever words in the wrong context' to argue the point.

It just underlines the ignorance.

Their natural foods (as with dogs) are rodents, birds, fish ... Never mind the decline of the poor wee birds...
We could start rat and mouse farms though. Nobody cares about them.
Tinned rat chunks.

Too many bones.

Dogs tend to be quite up for eating sheep.

Hmm, this argument is getting quite circular.

Dogs are the same species as wolves, so they do enjoy the bigger prey from time to time.

Cats will take out a lamb, if the opportunity arises.

Announcing you have a 'masters' in ecology on a forum doesn't make you a 'professional' - especially when the quality of their arguments are only fit for Daily Mail fodder. (This is a level playing which is why I have not pulled rank.)

And yes, some cats and dogs can occasionally manage a larger animal (cat --> cow? really?) for food (mostly if weakened), but generally they don't hunt larger prey as the risk of injury is too great.

But, it seems to me some of you will say anything to justify your flesh-fests and support of mass slaughter of innocent, fellow mammals.

"Never mind the decline of the poor wee birds..."

Yes, totally agree, farmers are to blame.

From GOV.UK:

In 2015 the UK farmland bird index was less than half its 1970 value.

But, it seems to me some of you will say anything to justify your flesh-fests and support of mass slaughter of innocent, fellow mammals.

Will nobody think of the fellow eukaryotes, though?

Who are we to slaughter innocent plants? They also feel stress. (true story)

Well, if you are so concerned about eukaryotes, you are free to eat bacteria.

No problem there .... except .... those darn farmers use soooooooo many antibiotics, you could end up starving to death!

And thus, you will be just another statistic of annihilation from anachronistic farming practices.

Counterpoint you are tremendous value! 🤣

I'm waiting for the time when we can grow cow's muscle tissue in huge vats.
That's when farming will become anachronistic.

counterpoint

Antibiotics for non medicinal use have been banned throughout the EU since 2006.

Any animals that are injected with antibiotics to treat an infection are subjected to mandatory withdrawal periods so they can't enter the food chain.

A vet has to prescribe all antibiotics.

As it happens an inspector has been on my farm today to do an annual inspection and has gone through my medicine records with a fine tooth comb, we have to record every single injection we give. Did you really think farmers are running round the countryside spunking money into expensive veterinary medicines that aren't absolutely necessary? Draxin for example which we use if something gets pneumonia works out at £8 per ml, so its only ever given when absolutely necessary and not just as a preventative.

The Uk is on track to meet very ambitious targets around reducing antibiotic use. Only 1% of antibiotics currently prescribed to farm animals are the ones that are causing concern around antibiotic resistance in humans.

www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-on-track-to-cut-antibiotic-use-in-animals-as-total-sales-drop-9

Every post you make just makes you sound more and more clueless. You think you are successfully scoring points but your assertions are just getting more and more bizarre and people are increasingly taking you less seriously rather than more.

As for the little birds - I bet you have never even heard of higher or entry level stewardship. I find it quite sad really that your understanding of how the land around you is farmed is so lacking, considering how vehemently you are putting your views across.

www.fwi.co.uk/business/all-you-need-to-know-about-higher-level-stewardship.htm

I would really appreciate an honest answer from you to the following questions-

Have you ever actually met a farmer or been on a farm?

Do you have any personal or professional experience whatsoever of a working farm environment?

Next year Lweji

In always amazed at how distanced people in general have become to farming.

I'm a vet, small animal only now, but I did my share of farm work in my early days. I find that most people have so little clue nowadays about how the food they eat is produced. I had a discussion a few years ago with fellow mums who didn't realize that cows have to produce a calf in order to produce milk . I hear ill-informed opinions on all aspects of farming/slaughter from people who have never been on a farm or in a slaughterhouse. The idea that ecchinococcus is a benign infection (bear in mind it can cause brain/liver cysts) is bizarre- would you be happy to be infected with it? If it's so I benign, presumably you'd be happy for those lambs to pass meat inspection and carry on into the food chain? I've also seen a dog die with neospora suffering horrendous seizures.
Sheep being chased by dogs often abort with the stress, even if they aren't attacked. There is no need for dogs to be in a field with sheep- there is LOADS of countryside! This is just a case of people being arseholes.

Farmers work hard, harder than almost any other section of society. The idea that they are all coining it in is completely laughable. The vast majority of livestock enjoy a happy life.

Fwiw, I was a vegetarian at 16, before I ever worked on farms, believing all the shit spread by the likes of counterpoint. Once I started actually working on farms, with cattle and sheep, and being in slaughterhouses (part of my training) I changed my mind. I eat meat. I try to support my local butcher (so also my local farmers) and I am happy I know where my meat comes from. I understand the legislation, the accreditations and the reality. The real problem is people wanting certain standards from UK farmers, which cost money to implement, then buying cheap imported meat, without caring about the standards/ legislation surrounding it! We should be supporting our farmers!

And scrowy you need a 6" body builder standing in your field in a sheep costume with a large gun

"I try to support my local butcher (so also my local farmers) "

As a vet, you have a vested interest.

• Like the bankers pushing loans on us ...

"I'm waiting for the time when we can grow cow's muscle tissue in huge vats.
That's when farming will become anachronistic."

The fact you concede there are more humane ways proves farming is anachronistic already.

are you going to answer my questions counter?

I feel a bit undignified to lol, counterpoint But I am. As I said, I am now, and have been for the last 20 years, a SMALL animal vet, ie I don't do farm work now, so I have absolutely no "vested interest". But I do have a lot of farm animal experience. Which you obviously dont. As do very few people nowadays. You have no idea of how hard farmers work and how precarious their situation can be. Fine, you don't want to eat meat. Other people do. I don't want to watch Eastenders, other people do.I can no more demand that Eastenders isn't shown than you can demand meat can't be eaten. But I am happy that we have legislation, that works, that ensures animal welfare is a big issue. I appreciate the work done by farmers to keep cows and sheep part of our world. I know that antibiotics in This country ( unlike the US) are strictly governed. I've don't work in slaughterhouses but have experienced them. Have you (apart from sensationalist leaked videos).

I don't really give two shits if people don't want to eat meat, but the ignorance around the whole farming issue really rips my knitting