about those on the autistic spectrum in mainstream schools?

[OverbearingHouseSitter]

Basically I've read so many threads recently about those on the autistic spectrum being completely let down by teachers and senior staff in schools.

I mean punishing those on the autistic spectrum in incidents when it is entirely inappropriate, and the lack of understanding of some teachers that you cannot use the same behaviour strategies on some children who require a different approach due to SEN.

And then there are times when punishment should not be given at all, such as when a child who is on the autistic spectrum behaving in a way that the teacher doesn't like, yet the teacher not seeming to realise that this behaviour is part of their SEN!

My mother was a teacher and I realise how hard being a teacher is. She got signed off sick with stress... it's a bloody hard job. But AIBU to think that some teachers and school staff- NOT all- seem to be consistently failing those on the autistic spectrum and those with other SEN, whatever these may be?

This is not just from this forum either! There have been instances from people I know I've heard about and with friends kids.

For example, a friends child was recently punished as he did not understand something the teacher said, ie, it was some form of light sarcasm the teacher used, friends DS with SEN did not register this, did what the teacher told the pupils sarcastically not to do and was then mortified and confused when the teacher punished him.

So AIBU?

I also apologise if I have used an language around people with special needs that you do not like/prefer not to use. My friend prefers the term "on the autistic spectrum" opposed to "autistic child" but if I have said anything wrong please tell me!

A diagnoses doesn't mean nothing.

In a good school with excellent staff abilities to meet the need of all pupils and differentiate accordingly whatever their needs then absolutely it may not be needed necessarily BUT for the vast majority of schools with large classes and low funds a diagnoses is the only way to force the school to meet the child's needs.

My child's diagnoses pushed them from a child who was four years behind to one who made three years progress in six months and finished primary on target and now on target again at secondary.

We need to stop failing those children.

I can believe Viva is a HT too, this is exactly the attitude we faced from ds's old primary head, who ruined a very important meeting by saying "but we can't see it" over and over again, eventually rendering the whole thing virtually pointless.

In ds's case money wasn't the issue, a little understanding and some minor reasonable adjustments would have gone a long way for him. Because this was denied, it will become very much about money as we have no option but to go for an EHCP and try to find a place in a special school. Timely and inexpensive attitude shifts would probably have prevented a lot of the mental health problems, anxiety, stress and overload which quickly got him to the point of being unable to cope.

Zzz I think I read on a recent thread that Viva is no longer in the UK.

I'm more than able to understand that teachers have neither the time nor resources to fully understand or cope with every SEN and the particular presentation within a class or school. That's mostly a question of funding. But it's also down to scepticism and lack of experience too.
Parents can spend their child's whole school career fighting for understanding, appropriate schools etc. We're told every school can cater for autism . A HFA child who is coping academically but falling apart mentally and socially doesn't get funding.
The education system as it stands is failing children with additional needs.

I didn't express any concern for you Viva. I do have some for your asd diagnksed kids and families though.

Agree money wasn't the main issue here either.

All my child needed most was being placed near the white board and away from the noisier ones and near the teacher so she could focus and a sheet breaking down the instructions of the task to help her process what was needed.

Can I just stick my head above the parapet here and tell our story? DS is mid-diagnosis of ASD, almost certainly Asperger's/HFA or whatever they want to call it. He's in mainstream, and got to Y4 before he began to show meltdown stresses and anxiety. I absolutely believe in masking; even our psychiatrist friend didn't spot it and he shows no deficits in eye contact, speech, coordination or reading ability. If anything, his coordination is better than it ought to be and he certainly never shuts up. I'm also pretty sure I'm also on the spectrum (undiagnosed of course, probably also due to being female and masking again).

This is an interesting discussion for me - we've had a lot of support from the school and teachers, and all of his class teachers have been very open to working with us to help DS concentrate and socialise (and shut the hell up when appropriate). They eventually gently suggested we get him assessed by some people they recommended, and though it is indeed time-consuming (been over a year even when non-NHS) it is helping and he's started this school year 100% better than last (when the anxieties were causing him to meltdown and curl up on the floor when the information overload got too much).

He admits that knowing how his head is wired and that is has a name is making it vastly easier for him to cope; he knows now how to recognise an approaching melt and can head it off. Information overload may always be a problem, but a calm-down place/period allows the logjam in his head to clear and he can start thinking again.

I wish I could say thank you publically for some wonderful teachers!

The needs of all children in a class should be considered, particularly the impact of continued extremely disruptive behaviour has on the class as a whole. DD had some very disruptive kids in her primary class - anger issues, chair throwing, swearing, some SEN some not. The school just didn't have the resources to deal with it all and some staff left because it was too stressful. DD didn't want to go to school because every day she was on edge waiting for someone to kick off. Mainstream is not always the best setting for every child.

Well, this has been delightful; from having my integrity questioned right through to people searching my posting history for what they feel are relevant details.

As this was clearly designed to be an echochamber with more of a 'challenge us if you dare' type mood than anything else, I'll leave you all to congratulate yourselves on being queens of the universe and right about everything.

I hope you attitudes benefit you and your children although I'm fairly sure it never will.

Yes, a flounce!

I meant arrogance in a different way.

Arrogant : to think you know more than, other peoplee*:"

Medical diagnoses are different from educational diagnoses.

Medical diagnosis holds no weight in the school/educational world.

Medical Diagnosis is done by paediatrician etc, a team of skilled people. They do ADOS tests. This is all they do. Their speciality .

And yet a medical diagnosis holds no weight in a school setting. Legally.
Educational physcologist can do her own evaluation and disagree.

If a teacher, with limited SN knowledge thinks that a child isn't autistic, even though all she is, is ONLY a teacher, not s specialist in autism, she can disagree with the paed. Disagree with the medical diagnosis.

It's ironic really. Imagine me standing in court, and saying 'in my opinion' the world specialist doctor on diabetes/cancer/epilepsy is wrong. I know better.

Beggars belief really.

But that IS what happens.

DD had some very disruptive kids in her primary class - anger issues, chair throwing, swearing, some SEN some not. The school just didn't have the resources to deal with it all and some staff left because it was too stressful. DD didn't want to go to school because every day she was on edge waiting for someone to kick off. Mainstream is not always the best setting for every child.

This could be down to badly managed needs and badly managed resources rather than a lack of resources per se. Attitudes count for a lot.

I'm afraid I get a little cross when the idea that mainstream cannot cope with any amount of SENs. It perpetuates the myth that inclusion is an impossible dream.

Mainstream was exactly the right place for my DC. The SS provision in our area catered to needs vastly different from my DC's. My DC did not have very severe additional needs, yet they were magnified, IMO in order to secure and hold onto funding. Funding that was not utilised for my DC.

My DC is now in Mainstream, well behaved, happy and achieving above average. Funding has ceased.

Inclusion gets politicised. All too often Special Schools are suggested as the solution because people want to hold onto their overly rigid and inflexible expectations and approaches. Yes, they are fantastic when appropriate to a child's needs. However society, as a whole, needs to be more inclusive, not less. Schools need to reflect this.

JustHope and a lot of parents of dc with SEN would love to have their dc in a specialist setting but can't get one. We have literally no chance of getting dd into specialist school as a) she has no EHCP (too clever and not at all violent) b) I can't find anything for very clever HFA girls even privately. So we're going to have to send her to a totally inappropriate catchment mainstream school. Her classmate with an EHCP is hoping to go to a specialist school but even that's not a given.

I cannot overturn a diagnosis but you misunderstand what it means at an independent school. A diagnosis means nothing. You get no extra funding, no special treatment beyond others, nothing.

Yet again it all boils down to money, and a HT (also SALT ) who thinks they have the right to question the clinical decisions of far better qualified people because the posh snooty parents don’t want their kids exposed to “those” kids. Aaaaaand suddenly it all makes a really depressing kind of sense. At least you’re not in the UK or at a state school which means you’ll never come across my bairns. Because in spite of your education, your level of superiority and power and your determination to show how much you know, you are lacking in basic humanity, empathy, and decency. All the things me and my kids spend our lives being told we don’t have (that’s irony, I remember that from school ). So you can take your educational superiority and continue to feel happy with it, I sincerely hope you have a good think about the way you dismiss people and patronise rather than listen.

YANBU.
Ds2 is currently home educated as he couldn't cope in school. Despite his diagnosis he was routinely unsupported from the age of 6 and has lost all trust in teaching staff.

*but when it comes to children who don't present as stereotypically autistic, it's an absolute nightmare just to get the child's autism acknowledged, let alone get any support in place.

Everyone knows about autism these days, and apparently everyone's an expert hmm*

^^these. and thats just reading the first few posts.

mines HE'd too as she cant cope in crowds and noise (not through lack of trying, nightmare in infant and junior schools, and THAT was in a unit frr SN).

OP, thank you for thread, and you are sooooooo NBU.

"At least you’re not in at a state school which means you’ll never come across my bairns."

I had a feeling that might be the case.

"So you can take your educational superiority and continue to feel happy with it"

Deal!

"All the things me and my kids spend our lives being told we don’t have"

All of you?

People don't always need to search posting history to remember what was written.

My attitude has got my son a place at a great specialist school so it has served him well so far.

Viva I didn't search to say you were not in the UK. I read a post on another thread about sen funding which mentioned it.

At least you’re not in at a state school which means you’ll never come across my bairns."

`I had a feeling that might be the case.'

You had a feeling the posters kids were in state school? What is that even suppose to mean

Obviously I’m far too common and scummy to have my kids in a private school ironically I’m privately educated, as are most of my family

How can you criticise others for thinking they are 'right about everything' on the same thread that you (who isn't qualified to diagnose autism) have said you KNOW that some of the children you have come across with autism (as diagnosed by an appropriately qualified team of professionals) definitely don't have autism. Do you not see the hypocracy there Viva ?

YANBU. DS2 is autistic but HFA which meant that he was within normal academic abilities (after a very slow start.) Most of his teachers were pretty cool towards him, one was absolutely vile, saying things like "His sour face spoils my smiley class." (That's a quote of what she actually said on parents' evening. He frowned in concentration trying to keep up with the NT world he was in - he wasn't diagnosed at the time. But he never had tantrums or played up. Just dared to be serious and introverted

I don't know if it is any comfort but NT children suffer similar things. My son had a bad squint, we had the whole shebang, patches, glasses and surgery more than once. He had one teacher who said, "I can't bear to look at him, I get so angry because I never know if he is looking at me or not." He was 4.

Viva, I think one thing is clear from your posts which is that you lack empathy. I read an academic study recently which suggested that having a child with Sen caused many parents to have PTSD type symptoms. Part of this was due to the difficulty and anxiety associated with having a child with SEN and much was suggested to be to do with the education and other state systems - fighting for understanding, support and funding for a vulnerable child. Battling the intolerance of others in wider society who don't see the worth in those who aren't NT.

I am to be honest very surprised that a SALT who has worked to support children and their families with speech difficulties would suggest a group of mothers with children struggling would be 'queens of the universe'. It's not the way I feel about my life.