about those on the autistic spectrum in mainstream schools?

[OverbearingHouseSitter]

Basically I've read so many threads recently about those on the autistic spectrum being completely let down by teachers and senior staff in schools.

I mean punishing those on the autistic spectrum in incidents when it is entirely inappropriate, and the lack of understanding of some teachers that you cannot use the same behaviour strategies on some children who require a different approach due to SEN.

And then there are times when punishment should not be given at all, such as when a child who is on the autistic spectrum behaving in a way that the teacher doesn't like, yet the teacher not seeming to realise that this behaviour is part of their SEN!

My mother was a teacher and I realise how hard being a teacher is. She got signed off sick with stress... it's a bloody hard job. But AIBU to think that some teachers and school staff- NOT all- seem to be consistently failing those on the autistic spectrum and those with other SEN, whatever these may be?

This is not just from this forum either! There have been instances from people I know I've heard about and with friends kids.

For example, a friends child was recently punished as he did not understand something the teacher said, ie, it was some form of light sarcasm the teacher used, friends DS with SEN did not register this, did what the teacher told the pupils sarcastically not to do and was then mortified and confused when the teacher punished him.

So AIBU?

I also apologise if I have used an language around people with special needs that you do not like/prefer not to use. My friend prefers the term "on the autistic spectrum" opposed to "autistic child" but if I have said anything wrong please tell me!

@notgivingin789 true to your name :)

There is simply not enough funding to support all SEN children to meet their full needs in mainstream schools in many instances.

When children have significant additional needs it is very, very challenging to educate them in a mainstream school. My DW is a teaching assistant and is currently expected to deal with a child who is severely autistic, has a developmental age of about 18 months and cannot control their bodily functions properly, but is the weight and height of a standard 8 year old. The school has not got the resources to ensure that specialist resources are available to support this child properly, it would cost thousands that they do not have. The specialist school up the road has the staff and equipment but not the places and the parents think that by keeping this child in mainstream education they are somehow going to be able to 'catch up' at some point.

This is an active political decision on how much education is funded in this country combined with an ideological decision that inclusions is best for all children in all cases (either from politicians or intransigent parents).

You both sound very capable and sensible and determined. at the dying comment though wanna.
I have a thread in SN about dd's admissions issue if anyone has sage advice.

YANBU. I'm a 1:1, some of the teachers are amazing, others just haven't got a clue, I'm lucky in that my SMT are great but I've had to ask them to step in because 1 teacher seems to think being extra strict will stop my 1:1 being autistic and it has caused several meltdowns that were totally avoidable, for example making the child apologise for calling me Mrs when I'm a Miss, I mean what the fuck was the point in that?

Hi,

Have just come back to thread and will be reading the whole thing to catch up... last time I replied it had about 20 replies!

Few things I will say.

1. Please don't think I'm blaming all teachers... like I said in original post, I know it's a very HARD job and I 100% think there need to be changes! For example, my friend spends three hours every night or two writing two good points and an improvement point on children's work... The children cannot read it (they are four) and the books stay at school, so the comments are never read! It's simply as the head teacher ordered it. Compete madness.

2. When teachers are to blame (and it does happen, as brilliant as some are) it is normally due to them being stretched, lack of teaching assistants, lack of SENCO, funding cuts... or simply lack of training or education. Not all teachers are trained to be specialists in SEN and that is NOT their fault. SENCO's should be provided in every school, enough for all the children who need them... yet sadly this does not happen and makes the teachers job harder.

But the whole discussion of how the whole education sector needs an overhaul is another topic all together.

It is clear though that those with SEN not being given the right opportunities and full care that they deserve and need in schools and lack of funding, strained teachers, etc... overlaps.

To put it simply, a classroom with one teacher and a TA who maybe spends 1/3 of the week with that class (due to being used across three or so classes) is not the best environment for any child to learn, let alone those with SEN.

1 kid in the class with an EHCP and you might get some support in some lessons. A class where the majority have SEN but no EHCP? You're on your own.

" cannot control their bodily functions properly"

Bodily functions/physical reasons are not a reason for a child to need special school.

Our school has an autism unit which is physically separate from the rest of the school. It's a staffed "safe space" where children can base themselves and spend as much time in the mainstream school as they can manage. It works very well. But the cuts in local authority funding means that lots of children now can't travel to the centre from surrounding areas and it is faced with closure.

Bertrand DS1s school has the same setup, or rather had until they amalgamated with another school. It worked really well, which is why changing it seemed so ridiculous to me.

There is simply not enough funding to support all SEN children to meet their full needs in mainstream schools in many instances.

This is a common myth trotted out by some schools. Funding is fluent. It has to be. There is not necessarily a set pot given out in September which the school must work from and allocate it to the children that need the addition help and then that's it for the year. If that's how it worked they'd never be able to accept children with SNs during the academic year.

For example. A child with significant needs started the school, the parents hadn't sought help as everyone had just said they were just 'spirited'. The child started the school in January. Support was put in place to help the child adjust and get them the 1-1 they so desperately needed. If the funding wasn't fluid they wouldn't have been able to access the support for the child.

"This is a common myth trotted out by some schools. Funding is fluent. It has to be."

Yes it is fluid. But authorities are dealing with the tightening budgets by refusing school's applications increasingly often. So schools are trying to find money from other "pots" ............

Schools have to fund the first £6000 of any SEN interventions per pupil themselves regardless of whether the school has way more pupils with SEN than the neighbouring school or if a whole bunch of them apply mid-year.

JonSnowsWife

You are aware that a 1-2-1 for a child takes money out of the pot from another child?

The money that schools receive for a SEND child is not enough to a single member of staff. (unless part time)

Problem is jonsnow unless by some miracle the school where able to access a top up payment from the LEA (in which case they would still have to fund the first £6000) then the school will be having to "Rob from peter to pay Paul" so to speak and take the funding needed from elsewhere. Even if they are lucky in being able to get an EHCP in place then that would take a minimum of 20 weeks.

DS has an EHCP, he goes to a great school. I am under no illusions that the funding that comes with his EHCP is nowhere near enough to provide the level of support which they do.

DS school also has a lot of children with additional needs. I very much doubt the "pot" given them to cover SEN comes close to covering what they actually need to spend to provide the support to every pupil sadly.

Try being a teacher who is being observed.

ALL students have to be on task all the time. Which is fine unless I have a class with Adam (not his real name).

Adam doesn't pay attention when I am explaining a task, he has already taken the handout and is working his way through the tasks, he will finish before any other student. He also will not speak to any other student and only to me when I go round to check on people individually.

Ideally when Adam has finished he would like to play a game for the last 15 mins which I'm happy with because he has completed all the work and it is calming for him and I know school is stressful.

But in an observation I can't let him do this, I have to have him listen to me and not start work, which is stressful because it is a break of routine and he feels he is being stopped from working. Instead of a game I have to give him extension work.

Vic Goddard (the HT from Educating Essex) talks about SEN funding in schools with a high number of SEN pupils:

"Every school has different challenges, of course, and ours have compounded some of our current financial issues. When you have over 60 young people with an EHCP (over 50% of all such students in the town) and you are told that the first 6k of support per young person is already in your budget (£366k) that causes some difficulties. This is compounded by the fact that our co-educators (LSAs) are highly experienced and skilled and we only get funded at the lowest band for such a role. We do not receive anywhere near the full cost of these staff but their work is invaluable to our most vulnerable students so I must find it somewhere.

I wonder what happens to the 6k, that is already in the budget, for schools that don’t have young people with that level of need? Any chance it can be taken off them and given to those of us that do? The feeling of injustice is compounded when you work out that over half of these young people are not attending their local secondary school with their friends from primary school. They actively choose Passmores for a variety of reasons (some really positive reasons) but too often it is because the nearby school somehow can’t meet their needs despite having the same level of funding. This is the point where the LA and the RSC both tell me there is nothing they can do about it and tell me to talk to the other one!"

headteachersroundtable.wordpress.com/2017/01/20/every-school-has-different-challenges-united-by-funding-pressures-vic-goddard-vicgoddard/

sashh

Your post highlights a big issue with the education system. Your observers want you to fit a square peg into a round hole which ends up being disruptive and counterproductive for everyone in the room.

Why can't they see that you and Adam have a system which works for you, means he is able to get on with work in a way which suits him and other students aren't having their education disrupted. He may not fit into their box of how lessons should be done but as long as he is still making progress and more importantly is happy why does that matter?

Problem is jonsnow unless by some miracle the school where able to access a top up payment from the LEA (in which case they would still have to fund the first £6000) then the school will be having to "Rob from peter to pay Paul" so to speak and take the funding needed from elsewhere.

Sirzy, this happened in response to schools misappropriating individual funding, and not utilising on the named child, though. I remember the initial papers, this was made quite clear. I have also had experience of my own DC's significant individual funding not been spent on them and their progress being downplayed to cling onto funding. Children with funding were being treated as 'cash cows'. Our LA even reduced the automatic funding per child, schools receive, because a disproportionate amount of additional funding was been applied for. This created a system where even relatively low level additional needs required Statemented provision. Which creates a distorted perception of the severity of additional need.

In my own experience school staff colluded in order to down play my child's progress. It puts a parent in a very difficult position. It was only with the added transparency and accountability, that came with the new SEN funding mechanisms, that it became possible to show my DC was receiving reduced provision and because they were doing well without this 'provision' still are there had actually been progress in additional need.

An outlay of £6k is like an investment. Before schools, in our area, often had little to lose, in magnifying quite trivial additional needs, to their own ends. This leaves less money available to those who really do need it. As does utilising one child's individual funding elsewhere. Now schools have to show they are making provision. It has to be quantified too, which adds a much needed sense of scale to severity of need.

I get that initial funds are stretched. I get that some children need continue high level support. But I understand, only too fully, why there was this change in funding mechanism. It is the result of some schools taking the proverbial!

And really, when you see the harsh, inflexible approaches in teaching and expectations of children, you can see how some additional funding is used as a 'sticking plaster' to cover over a lack of inclusion and reasonable adjustments.

My DC actually did better once we managed to get funding ceased. It meant staff were not viewing them through cliched lenses. It meant they were able to escape the TAs and having to work closely with children with conflicting additional needs and abilities because the TA was funded through my child's individual funding. It meant there was no incentive to downplay ability or progress.

Of course this is not true for children who need their additional provision. But this type of practice does not help them, either. It means often needed individual funding is not secured for them because the school does not have to take the time and resource to do this, as funding is been used from another child.

Why can't they see that you and Adam have a system which works for you, means he is able to get on with work in a way which suits him and other students aren't having their education disrupted. He may not fit into their box of how lessons should be done but as long as he is still making progress and more importantly is happy why does that matter?

I agree with you, wholeheartedly, here. This type of evaluation policy is anti-inclusion. It prevents inexpensive, simple reasonable adjustments to be made. It requires more needs to be termed additional, when in reality they are just different.

50 years ago
children were just naughty, if you can believe it, during my training we were sent to
stare at kids at ESN school
( Educationally Sub Normal )
yes really.

And. my grandson has ADD and is on medication
My eldest now 44 was/is a little sod and would deffo be classified with somthing, even at the time we saw a whole raft of professionals, tried Anything to get him some help
In correctional centre at 17 and prison at 22, nothing since including work of any kind. Has IQ off the rails. Simply put he looks like a homeless person and is permanently stoned. I weep for him

I do NOT think that lack of funding is the issue, at all. I do think enormous amounts of money are wasted.

Me neither zzzzz lack of understanding and education on the conditions are rife amongst some schools though.

I spent six years teaching in an SEN dept. I know my students with ASD need structure, clear explanations, and a calm working environment. But the school has 2,300 kids in it. Can you imagine what that's like at social times for a kid with ASD? And if they come into my classroom already verging on meltdown because of that, it makes things even harder for them, and certainly harder for me! Let alone the other 29 kids, all with their individual needs. DS has generalised anxiety disorder. If there was a greater range of special schools, I would definitely look into one for him. He is doing extremely well academically, but would definitely thrive more in a calmer environment. There simply isn't the choice available to parents any more, and it's damaging the education of all children in schools.