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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

WIBU to tell DD she can no longer play the violin and has to pick something else? (She sounds fucking horrific!)

122 replies

hoppitybob · 19/09/2017 19:26

Help. I'm absolutely hating it. Awful sound, it's screeching in my ear, even when she is taking a break!! She loves it, but my God, I can't take anymore.

Piano, guitar, etc. fine. I wish the violin was never on offer to her.

WIBU to say she can pick any other instrument she likes? It's been 9 months and it sounds the exact same, but that awful sound is just making a sort of tune...

OP posts:
PickleFish · 20/09/2017 11:00

Yes, agree with so many others:

a) get a good instrument if you can
b) get it set up properly at a good string shop - this bit doesn't have to cost much, but can make a huge difference
c) better strings
d) get fine tuners put on the end of all the strings, so you don't have to touch the pegs, and you can still tune it. Then get a tuning app on your phone and tune it each time (or teach her how)
e) open strings for quite a while, listening to the sound. It's all about bow control, and there's no need to involve other fingers (which often are what make it sound screechy). She needs to get good at being able to play on a single string without catching the others, and to change easily from one to the next (moving her elbow as well). She can play slow and fast bows, press harder or more lightly, different patterns of these - also trying to get smooth changes between up and down. We used to play the same note or sequence of open strings, but with loads of different bowing patterns. She can make up her own rhythms etc. Playing with a straight bow in between the bridge and fingerboard will help the tone a lot - get her to look in the mirror to check - often the bow will go crooked towards the end, and drift over the fingerboard
f) Hearing intervals - don't need the violin for this; can she sing what a tone or a semitone or a third should sound like? (if you don't know what these are, the teacher can show you, or you can get a keyboard - even on the ipad! - and play the notes). She needs to be hearing what she is aiming for. Ideally if she can sing them, that's great, or even if she can listen to them and be able to tell them apart. The tuning app can also help with that!
g) gradually introduce fingers, but don't use the bow, just pizzicato. And listen very carefully to the tuning! Lots of children want to progress to using lots of fingers, and quickly, but don't care about the tuning. Better to go slowly and just learn them gradually, as it's a combination of muscle memory and listening to what it should sound like, and comparing. No point playing a whole series of fingers, if they aren't starting in the right place. If you have a piano (or again, the keyboard on the ipad or something), can she play a particular note, and match it to the sound she hears? If not, can she tell if she is matching or not? etc.
h) gradually start bowing the fingered notes as well. Having quite strong fingers that can hold the string down firmly enough also helps, so lots of activities like play-dough etc can also be good, if she has weak fingers

It really doesn't have to sound as bad as that! Tuning and bow control are the things that make it sound like a screechy cat, and the more you work on those at the start, the better the sound will be. Trying to go too fast and get into tunes etc too soon just leads to bad habits. You see children who just play by 'finger number' - they know to put their third finger down or first finger or whatever, and what string to put it on, but they have no idea how to listen to tell whether it's exactly right!!

se22mother · 20/09/2017 11:16

Yabu. Dd plays violin, it takes a lot of practice and a decent instrument but is incredibly rewarding. If she wishes to play then encourage her and work with the teacher/ check her practice book to keep on top of what she is learning each week.

LightDrizzle · 20/09/2017 11:18

You have my sympathy but I fear you must grin and bear it.
DD1 progressed through the grades, including Grade 8, before she left school and she played in the first violins in the local Youth Orchestra. I think she was around Grade 5 before it sounded halfway decent and even at Grade 8 it was often best appreciated from an adjacent room Grin
It is a very penetrating sound even when played well and not really designed with an audience within 6 foot in a domestic scale room.
I do think there are terrific benefits to learning such a tricky instrument, I play the piano and the guitar and I take my hat off to her, I really do.
Can she practise in her bedroom? My daughter's music stand lived in there.
I know it may be correlation rather than causation, but so many musical children seem also to do well academically. Playing in an orchestra was also an amazing experience. She even went to Germany "on tour" with them at around 16 or 17 years old.

WhatALoadOfOldBollocks · 20/09/2017 11:51

I've heard that they get excellent results during interrogation at Guantanamo Bay by locking the prisoners up with a room full of violin playing kids. Far quicker results than any other method they've tried, apart from using bagpipes. How anyone can put up with the god awful racket I have no idea. You parents who have "musical" kids must have extremely high tolerance to noise because putting up with it for "years" isn't something I could do. Fair play to you though.

altiara · 20/09/2017 12:17

Give it until at least a year, that's what I was told by a friend who's nephew sounded terrible on the violin but then they learnt vibrato and started winning competitions! (Or so they said)

whatsthecomingoverthehill · 20/09/2017 12:38

The main benefit to playing a string instrument is the opportunities it gives to play. There's something like 30 violins in an orchestra and 2 or 3 flutes. In my youth orchestra days the flutes and clarinets were all diploma standard...doesn't give much opportunity for decent but not outstanding players.

haggisaggis · 20/09/2017 12:49

Why all the negativity towards bagpipes? Both ds and I play and I'm sure our neighbours find it delightful!!
(they can't hear us - I checked.)

TheQueenSnortsAvocados · 20/09/2017 13:06

I haven't read the full thread, because I'm now having horrendous cello flashbacks...

I picked it because I was a contrary fucker it was one of the more unusual instruments available at my school, spent three months with permanently bruised shins from lugging it back and forth to school, and finally gave up when my tutor trilled, "you must open your legs wiiiiiiiiiider" with uncomfortable glee.

I switched to tenor and treble recorders and was much happier!

ZippyCameBack · 20/09/2017 13:10

I'll see your violin and raise you two sets of bagpipes. Seriously. I feel your pain, and I'm really hoping that at least one of my kids gives up the bloody bagpipes, but for now I just have really good noise-cancelling headphones and an escape plan!

Ilovewillow · 20/09/2017 13:11

My yr 5 daughter plays and has played for 3 yrs now and it took a long time for it to sound good - but when she gets it right its beautiful! Sadly I think it's one of those instruments that you need a lot of practise before it begins to sounds reasonable. By stark contrast she took up the clarinet as a second instruments two weeks ago and already it sounds really lovely! Sorry that's no comfort I'm sure!!

SugarMiceInTheRain · 20/09/2017 13:17

Violin teacher here. Not read all the responses so sorry if I'm repeating what others have said, but have you had the violin checked/ adjusted by an expert? The guy I use locally can make a real difference to the sound of cheap beginner instruments by setting them up properly rather than just selling them as they come, as lots of music shops do. When I started learning, a friend of my mum's said if you start with a bad instrument, it'll sound terrible and you'll want to give up, so lent me a lovely 1/4 size violin to start with and sure enough, I progressed quickly (my mother hated the idea of me playing violin and made me prove I'd practise by practising the recorder every day for a year to show my commitment before I was allowed to start violin!)

That said, beginner's violin is painful and when you think about it, it's a pretty unnatural instrument to play (position you have to stand in and hold your arms in etc)! You also need to have a good musical ear because otherwise you won't hear if you're slightly out of tune (and unlike guitar, there are no frets to help you out!) - at least with other instruments if you press a key you get a certain note!

MusicMan65 · 20/09/2017 13:17

Try getting hold of a Practice Mute (small, metal, fits over the bridge and damps the sound considerably, cheap to buy). That way she can get her chops together almost silently and then remove the Practice Mute once she's ready to give you the full concert experience. Hope that helps. Playing any instrument is so good for any kid and actually the benefits to her development are far more important than the actual sound at this stage. Hope you can get through this bit! Violin never really sounds 'good' to a non-musician for the first couple of years, hang in there!

Hebenon · 20/09/2017 13:22

Does she practise every single day? Because otherwise, 9 months learning means nothing really. Even a few months of genuinely practising every day will lead to a huge improvement. It doesn't have to be for ages, she just has to concentrate and genuinely try to improve the sound she is making.

TiesThatBindMe · 20/09/2017 13:29

Hebenon. There are some people who genuinely won't improve despite practise. You're either good at it or not. It's not a particularly enjoyable pursuit for a child who is tone deaf.

ThanksForAllTheFish · 20/09/2017 13:49

I think I would give her another 6 months to see how it goes. She might sound better by then. Could you stick her in the garage or something to practice?

Personally I would love to learn the violin as it's a beautiful sounding instrument when played properly, but I know I am not musical and it would sound like a dying cat. (5 years of guitar lessons/ 3 years of piano lessons/ 2 years of drum lessons and I can't play a single tune, I think I am tone deaf Sad)

DD is learning drums but fortunately one of the (many) kits in our house is electronic so she can stick on headphones and the noise isn't too bad - just a click click click sound which I can cope with. DH is naturally very musical and is teaching her drums and guitar.

Hebenon · 20/09/2017 14:29

Surely everyone will improve at least a bit with practise? I mean, it is actually a mechanical thing, getting a nice sound out of a violin - musicality is another issue. There are specific physical things you can do to improve the quality of the sound. Unless there is a physical issue, I would imagine anyone could learn to make an OK noise if not actually be good at it. I play the violin myself and so does ten year old DD so I'm not basing this on absolutely nothing.

TheresSomebodyAtTheDoor · 20/09/2017 14:49

I'm quite surprised by these comments! My dd who usually finds learning anything v difficult, has never sounded awful since she started learning the Violin, or maybe I need to get my hearing checked!!

TheresSomebodyAtTheDoor · 20/09/2017 14:50

She is learning on a 1/4 size though, wonder if that makes any difference?

LaurieMarlow · 20/09/2017 15:02

It just takes a while hebenon as you know.

Before it sounds good, you need to develop decent tuning (correct placing of the fingers), good bow control and ideally some tonal variety (which you'll get with vibrato). Putting all those in place takes years.

Whereas learning the flute for example, actually making the note is less complicated, so you can learn to play something simple nicely much more quickly.

milliemolliemou · 20/09/2017 15:05

The fact she loves it and practices means you should just suck it up. Many parents would give their eyeteeth to have a child like that. Get her violin checked out, invest in a mute and encourage her.

BlackeyedSusan · 20/09/2017 15:05

took ages for dd to sound good. for at least some of the time. 9 months is nothing.

Hebenon · 20/09/2017 16:09

Before it sounds good, you need to develop decent tuning (correct placing of the fingers), good bow control and ideally some tonal variety (which you'll get with vibrato). Putting all those in place takes years.

I know it takes a while to sound properly good. But even getting the bow working better in the beginner stages improves the tone of what you are listening to tremendously. DD has been learning for about three years and took Grade 3 last term so nowhere near vibrato. But she does make a nice noise - the screeching thing hasn't been a problem for her since the first month or so. She does consistently do her practice every day and I am sure this made a big difference.

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