To want to put my son in care.

[ChubbyMummy12]

My ds is 6 next month and is being assessed for ADHD. I can't cope with him anymore. All he does is scream at me, throw stuff at me, tells me he hates me, trashes his room, bangs in his room, steals food from the cupboards, he teases his little sister, and she's only 20months. We've spoken to a family support worker to help find ways to discipline him and none of it works, he just don't care. He has me in tears every single day, I just can't do it anymore. Iv been reading up on the section 20 care order, has anyone got anymore information or experience about that? I just can't do it anymore and I don't know what to do

Section 20 isn't as straight forward as it seems - there is no guarantee you'll get your child back if you change your mind. The care system is extremely stretched your son could potentially end up placed anywhere in the UK - they (children's services) don't necessarily place your child with carers able to meet specific needs.

My advice - ask for a assessment of needs to be carried out (not sure if that's the correct term?) also ask for a carers assessment urgently.

Section 17 is emergency respite.

They changed their diet and he got medicated, I think my friend was on antidepressants for a while. She also saw a counsellor. They did family therapy too. They identified triggers and school set targets for his behaviour.

He's a pretty good teenager now, much more caring and helpful than others. It took about 6 months for things to improve.

You need t o get a diagnosis or assessment to move ahead asking for respite

If you do go down the SS route they will look at removing both children if you ask for your son to be put in care i know this as i work within children's services my advice to you is to reach out to other avenues for support your health visitor can give you advice try local churches they can offer support and are very approachable nice people google support in your area there's often a few groups you will be able to go for support also try your local children's centre who hold lots of useful info on whats about to help your family

My bil has severe ADHD.. these are things that helped him as a child...

Exercise
Fresh air
No sugary snacks or drinks
Caffeine actually helps too but not sure if it's recommended for children tbh
But mainly his medication

Op I'm sorry you're going through this, it sounds so tough.

I am a foster carer and my child has ADHD and ASD.
It took approx 4 years to diagnose. They came to use age 4 and is now 10.
We didn't want to medicate but it was strongly advised by dr. So we did and they are now so much better.
The best thing I found was to look for support groups. Being with other parents makes you feel so much better and they can point you in the right direction for training and give you lots of info.
Good luck it's hard but it will get better.

You shouldn't feel a failure. This is a lot to cope with and you need some help. I agree with contacting SS and ask for some respite care. No point in you become ill with all this then both your DC's will suffer. there's absolutely no shame in seeking help. It's the sensible thing to do.

I've been here OP.

DD has severe disabilities, physical and learning disabilities. She's a very complex child. A couple of years ago, when she was 7, I became unwell (chronic conditions) The onset of my ill health was brutal. I was in pain, exhausted, scared, struggling.. I couldn't get up on a morning, I couldn't function, I was desperate. DD's behaviour was horrific at the time, she was angry and frustrated, I couldn't make her happy, I couldn't do my job. I called our disability social worker and he came out straight away. I told him I wanted to put her in care. It was explained to me that it wasn't a simple process and once started, couldn't be undone. Our respite care was upped and carers were brought in to help me do the big jobs like showering her.

The point of my post is 'care' is an enormous jump from what you're doing now. I felt just like you, though the circumstances are different I understand the desperation, the guilt, the conflict of emotions. Your family worker need to get you some respite, there has to be some kind of support system in place to allow you to breathe. If you're anything like me, a weekend off would change your perspective, it helps you cope.

Get in touch with them again and ask for a carers assessment, explain that you're feeling like you may have to put your DS in care. Nobody wants that but there are stepping stones between you struggling alone and giving up your child.

I really feel for you. My chronic conditions are all still there but things have settled. DD's behaviour improved when I got the support I needed to care for her. Things have never been better for us, coping-wise. Things will get better if SS can support you.

I'm really not sure that people understand the thresholds and the lack of foster carers and services available at the moment! There would need to be a diagnosis and the threshold fir children with disabilities is extremely high. In my area children with ADHD do not meet threshold. I would always be looking at extended family as this is clearly what will be in your sons best interests.

You are being given some excellent advice on here re looking at community resources such as support groups etc

Has your son been tested for Aspbergers,just asking because one of my grandsons was like this, he was terrible, he went to a special school, as a resident for the school week and home at weekends,
He has now grown into a lovely boy, still has some traits that are not too good, but not violent anymore, but if he gets very upset he closes down and holds his hands tight in front of him,
He has a good job and is very clever
I hope you can get some help, i feel for you

We're in a very similar situation with our DD1 (8). She's been diagnosed with Attachment Disorder. She has really loud meltdowns, throws things and lashes out. She regularly hurts DD2 (5), who has been saying that she no longer wants to live with DD1. (They're adopted but full birth sisters.)

My DM does help by having them for sleepovers individually to give us a break, but she's 78 so it's not ideal. It's so tough, and this week it's been exhausting.

She often won't settle down to sleep before 10pm, however hard we try, because she refuses to get ready for bed. Getting ready for school is a nightmare, though I've been finding a way through by just not getting drawn into arguments.

Her behaviour at school is great, she's Jeckhill and Hyde. She had an award for her behaviour at school this week. It's just so hard to understand.

You have my empathy but unfortunately no answers, OP, as I'm feeling my way through as well. We're trying to get therapy for her, but it's such a long wait. I like the idea of recording her behaviour and showing it to the school, I might just try that.

The thing is there is ADHD and then there is ADHD at a whole different level.

DS1 has ADHD, we could manage him like you would a Border Collie, loads and loads of exercise and fresh air, easy really. He is now joining the Army.

And then there was my nephew who was basically wild, totally oppositional, violent, food issues, hardly ever slept, disruptive at school (even his special school had him on 1 to 1 obs).

I have know idea how my sister coped, he escaped from an upstairs window aged 9 in the middle of the night once and the police brought him back. She had to suffer the indignity of being dressed down about how to safeguard him properly!

What a joke!! She had been begging for help for years.

Medication and respite turned his life around and hers.

I really hope you get the help and support you and he both need OP.

Use the following as a template and send it off to your local borough. No guarantees but the worst that can happen is they refuse to assess. Good Luck.

Dear Director of Children’s Services

My son / daughter: [name, e.g. Anna Smith]
Date of birth: [e.g. 12th March 2007]
Request for a disabled child’s assessment and a carer’s assessment (and registration on the children with disabilities register)

I would be most grateful if a social worker could contact me at the earliest opportunity in relation to the care needs of my above named child and my needs as a carer [and the needs of] [names of any other persons, e.g. your other children or partner].

[Briefly describe the contact that you have had with the local authority and also state if your child has a SEN Statement or EHC Plan].

At the end of this letter I have provided detailed information about Anna’s impairments and the effect that they are having on her welfare and my well-being. In summary, Anna has [briefly describe your child’s impairments] and the effects on Anna and me [and the rest of the family] include:

• [briefly list the impact on your child, you and other family members]
• ..
• ..

It is because of these difficulties that I am seeking an assessment of Anna’s needs as a disabled child, and an assessment of my needs as a parent carer [and an assessment of the needs of] [names of other family members who should be assessed, e.g. your partner, another child who might be a young carer].

What I am seeking from these assessments is the provision of appropriate support to Anna and myself [and] [names of other family members]. In particular I am seeking the following support, which I consider to be essential:

• [List here the support you’re seeking, e.g. regular breaks from caring, practical help at home, support to help your child take part in activities]

To summarise, I am seeking at the earliest opportunity:

1. an assessment of Anna’s needs for care and support under the Children Act 1989 and the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970, section 2;
2. an assessment of my needs for support as a parent carer under the Children Act 1989 s17ZD;

3. [an assessment of [name of other person]’s needs for support under the Children Act 1989];

1. the provision of practical help – i.e. support services – to address our eligible needs;
2. advice on what help I can expect from the other relevant agencies, the availability of social security benefits and details of voluntary groups in my area
3. the entry of Anna’s name on your register of children with disabilities (under the Children Act 1989, Schedule 2, part 1 para 2).

[Explain why you need Children’s Services to take urgent action].

[Explain when and how Children’s Services should contact you] [e.g. I am not presently working and am generally available most mornings (until about midday) on the above telephone number]

I look forward to hearing from you at the earliest opportunity.

Yours sincerely

Annex

List in detail your child’s impairments and the effect these disabilities are having on his/her welfare and your well-being.

This evidence is important – since the local authority will be required to consider it and if it disagrees, to explain why it is not accepted.

Ideally full details should be provided of all key factors – e.g:

• The diagnosis / description of your child’s impairments (with reference to medical or other evidence establishing this);

• Details of harm suffered (ideally with reference to specific incidents – when these happened, where, who witnessed them, what happened and what could have happened etc.)

• Details of the dangers that exist (ideally including comments from other people - e.g. family, friends, teachers, doctors, nurses, other members of the community etc - which confirm their belief that your child and you have the need for care and support that you have identified and giving their opinions as to what harm may occur if it is not provided etc).

His diet is awful, he point blank refuses to eat any fruit or veg, he won't eat home cooked meals, only wants pizza, burgers, chips, nuggets, sausages, scrambled egg or BBQ.

We can't re work jobs, DH only started his new job at the end of April, I start my new job next month working 5pm-10pm, I can't afford child care for dd for me to work day time.

I saw a counsellor once, I was suffering with major depression, & she told me it's my fault and I need to change my attitude so I never went back. I stopped my antidepressants the beginning of this year because I was having frequent episodes of tachycardia.

I don't let ds snack, especially on sugary stuff, but he steals it from the cupboards and eats it locked in the toilet. He's climbed the wardrobe in my bedroom to get to dh's box of chocolates (birthday present) and ate half of them.

I have no family who will watch him, most family live 50+ miles away, my mum lives local but it's a strained relationship, and she's not well atm, and mil will only watch him during half term.

Mrstodds thank you. Il get it done first thing monday.

No advise but sending you the biggest hug and lots of love and supporting vibes 💐

If you go sect 20 you give up all parental rights. If you want to find out how he is doing or visit him you have to apply for permission and there is no guarantee you will be given it. Your son will become the ward of the county and if he is violent or aggressive may end up in a secure unit. Please follow the suggestions here to formulate a plan and get some sleep. When you are at the end of your tether like this you can't always see a way out, but it is there. Speak to his school and ask for support there too. Good luck and hang in there!

Hi Chubbymummy - I think that the right medication may help both you snd your DS. For your DS once you have persevered with getting his ADHD diagnosis (I can see you have stRted this process off) they may be able to offer medication which will help his condition. Obviously this needs to be done in conjunction with exercise, diet etc.

Having just read your last post though regRding your depression and your own difficulties with medication I think if you return to your GP and explain that your medication did not suit they will be able to prescribe an alternative. I think this will improve your perception regarding the difficulty with your DS and help with the helplessness you are feeling at the moment.

Oldfztandstressed - section 20 does not give up all parental rights (I) you are on a joint care order with the lA and (ii) you can revoke this at any time you choose.

I'd contact social services and possibly speak to your GP. Insist you see a support worker from social services soon, as they might be busy. Explain everything you've said here. The sooner the better. There are options but you need to speak loudly to get them.

In the meantime write down every incident tomorrow. Every one. Think of it like an iceberg. The tip if the bad behaviour. The underneath is all the rumblings that cause it. The behaviour is usually one of three things:

1. Avoiding something. Like having to do something. Or following a rule.
2. Wanting attention, which includes boredom and too much 'free time'.
3. A sensory or sickness that is bothering them, or being really sensitive to loud noises.

All of the above a worse if the kid is tired, and how is not used to regulating his emotions.

And if it's ADHD, he won't be able to regulate his reactions very well at all. As in, like one my kids (ADHD too) he reacts extremely to any situation. And he can't just 'follow rules' in the normal way.

So first thing is REDUCE YOUR EXPECTATIONS. He's not being naughty. He can't handle or cope with what other kids can cope with.

The next most important thing to do is list what happened JUST BEFORE his outburst.

Then think about you could do for each and every one. Try and reduce the number of triggers.

So for example, if he doesn't like being told 'NO'. Think of how to not do that as often. And avoid saying what not to do, give him, straight away, what he is the right thing to do. If he screams loudly, don't say 'stop screaming', say in a whisper 'I didn't hear you, what did you say?' Or if he whacks the dog immediately say 'Gentle hands' and how him gently how to stroke the dog.

I have a child with extreme behaviour and it can be turned around. You have to totally change yourself though, all of you as carers, way, way before you can expect to see some change in your child. It's got to be worth it.

I had to list all the things that set my child off, like triggers, which were just about everything, and totally turn around. You can't avoid everything, so for a while just concentrate all your energy on:
Anything that is unsafe
Anything that harms others

That's it. Do that for a while. Sleep can come next.

Also good, are routines and lots of positive reinforcement.

Also vital, is not losing it ourselves. Not shouting. Not screaming. No aggression, the child picks that up and just mirrors it.

Is he worse when he's tired?

You can revoke a section 20 - LA could initiate court proceedings...

You are technically correct apples but its really not something I would recommend doing.
You share PR with the LA and they can overide you if its in the child's best interests. Legally you can remove your child from care but SS can object and obtain a court order to prevent it.
Lots of kids are under sec 20 because SS deemed them to be at risk. So they are in care voluntarily but there is no way their parents are going to allowed to take them home.

I have known it to work out ok in cases of PND etc where mum acknowledges she is not able to cope for a while. Even then its taken a good long while to get the family back together.

Its really not something to enter into unless there is no alternative and the situation is desperate IMO.
Particularly not while the system is so stretched.

princesspinkgirl Your comment regarding LA removing both children if you ask for your DS to be taken into care - not in my experience at all. Children's Services will only put a child into care at the very last resort. You say you work there? Obviously different authorities may operate slightly differently but aside from this being in the best interests of the child, the financial cost would surely be the same for all authorities.

thefirstmrsDV sorry yes I totally agree with you. I would not recommend the OP went through this procedure at all - my comment was that I didn't think that the poster who said she couldn't revoke the section 20 was not correct I her comment.