to be freaked out by the frozen, filled faces littering our media

[PhelanGood]

Seriously. And I bet they all think nobody can tell! Will this trend ever end?

I'm often too distracted by the botoxed plumped juvedermed visages on display, to concentrate on what the bearer of said face is actually saying! Doesn't help that they can no longer engage viewers with natural facial expressions.

I find it fascinating and alarming that paying to have the world's deadliest poison injected into you is becoming the norm, especially when all it achieves is a face that doesn't move, and ultimately a weakening of the muscles, which surely are the thing we should be strengthening to prevent wrinkles long term..!? And concentrating on eliminating toxins!

(Obviously I'm not talking about its medicinal uses such as preventing migraines.)

Fillers are even worse, they look absolutely repugnant to me. Especially in the lips! Who wants to kiss a pair of plumped up plastic lips that look like you've had an allergic reaction.

Am I being unreasonable, and am I alone in finding this trend so disturbing and weird... do I need to get with the times? Are injectables just today's "whalebone corsets"? It's got to a point where I actually adore seeing lovely wrinkled faces on the screen as it's so rare now.

I think body dismorphia (?) is becoming widespread due to all of these z listers on tv & magazines. There is nothing wrong with anyone wanted to look the best they can, but many look like clones of each other. Charlotte looked lovely, fresh faced and normal, but now she looks flat and boring.

How can any ' real' actress want to have a frozen look? We will never see Maggie Smith, Judi Dench and many others of their quality doing any of that, they have real talent and character.

When Broadchurch was on, Anna Parish (I've got her name wrong I'm sure - she was in Broadchurch and W1A) said she'd had a facelift I think. She said she was really jowly on camera and it was really difficult to light her apparently. I don't judge her for doing it, but you do wonder how many men (outside of big Hollywood stars) have to do the same.

Misogyny to fight back against the tide of ageism especially for women oh ok

Should we completely ignore the pressure some feel and accept and praise women for looking great when they so desperately are trying to fight nature to the extent they will put poison in their body or altering themselves to achieve a certain look and how this is becoming more normalised

Its completely valid to observe and criticise how women are presented in the media. The stretched-out, blank doll look for a thinking-feeling-intelligent woman in her 40s and 50s and beyond is not an authentic look. Its regressive and, frankly, creepy. The OP's opening question is brilliantly put. To try to shame those who do have thoughts on this is not feministy-virtuous, as the posters would like to present themselves. Instead its just as blank as the faces peeking across the table on Loose Women.

What motivates the women to do this to themselves is another issue. But women have base motives sometimes - just as much as men! They're in it for the money or the power or whatever. Possibly some might have more creative and positive reasons ... but its hard to think of one just now.

The irony is very few people who have spent all this money and time on such a competitively-vain endeavour look any better. Most look worse. Even Madonna (who I am a fan of generally). To my mind they end up having that middle-aged blousy-alcoholic look - all the strange puffiness. Or are so tightly arranged, like Fiona Bruce, they have slightly scary android traits. I actually find it hard to look at alot of women presenters on TV now. And I realise why after this thread - they actually look very odd and strange. You end up mesmerised by their weirdness and what-is-wrong-cant-put-my-finger-on-it - instead of focusing on what they are trying to say and do.

", I'm guessing that the women who spend huge amounts of time and money actually getting treatments done might actually feel worse. It's a trap for all of us, whatever our choices (except those few well-adjusted people who genuinely don't care. Envious respect to them!)"

The only person who genuinely doesn't care is Mary Beard, the rest of us do, to some degree. I only know of one Woman in my area that has left her hair to go grey, everyone else puts at least a tint on.

My Great Grandmother born in the 1890's had a lot to say about Women who died their hair.

I think it has gone beyond trying to look younger, it's a look in it's own right. My DD (31) made the mistake of getting her eyebrows done before her Botox, so earned the title of Ming the Merciless, for a few weeks.

I watched Geordie Shore and it's apparent that the young Women on most of these reality programme have really low self esteem and think that they have to be constantly sexual to be valid. Unfortunately there are a number of girls who put these 'stars' on a pedestal.

I'm going, at 50, down the HIFU route. I'm also having a quarter of a ml of lip filler to replace what I've lost after the Menopause. I view this no different as buying a tightening cream or lip plumbing gloss, which may not work. I have had skin peels for around five years and they brighten my skin, so did going Vegan. I am also waiting for more people to get Fibro-Blasting, to decide if I want that on my decollete, in the future. I tend to cut back on buying curtains/cushions etc, so if I didn't spend the money on me,it would probably be spent anyway (I travel when i'm not at work and can afford big holidays every few years).

I don't know anyone who feels worse after getting something done, tbh. We all 'waste' money on something.

"Instead its just as blank as the faces peeking across the table on Loose Women."

Either way, Women are still being judged on their appearance. You can discuss the wider implications without individual insults, or pedestal putting of Women who have managed to get their Careers going in roles were being an object of sexual desire wouldn't fit, so haven't even tried to go down that route.

Spending money is not the problem, especially when it has some vaguely creative and pleasurable aspect. I love beautiful clothes for example, though don't often wear them. Even make up can be creative and the same for hair colour and so on.

I think that is completely different from the frozen doll look, which is conformist and not creative in any way. In fact I would go so far as it to say it is going in exactly the opposite direction. As someone once said, its like embalming before you're actually dead.

I'm 42 and started on forehead Botox when I was about 40 - so I think I've had it 4 times. I love it tbh, but I have the very minimal amount. I can still move my forehead, I just look refreshed and I find it gives my whole face a lift. Also had a tiny amount of filler in the nose to mouth lines (6th of a teaspoon used for both sides) about a year ago and it takes years off, it really does. These fillers are naturally broken down by the body anyway - nothing toxic. If you think it's too much, then just don't have it again. I can't see the problem.
I would say most people I know have Botox /fillers in this area of London. We're quite open about it. I also had body hair lasered off which was brilliant. People do allsorts. Most of the women I know look great for their age - nobody has a freak face at all. Tbh though, I do wonder if my perspective on this might be slightly distorted because when I go to other parts of the country (naming no names), I do think that people of the same age look a bit haggard. So maybe it's all relative.

I guarantee no one looking at me would think i'd had anything done. But i have had fillers.

I am going to have a 'concept' face lift and my boobs sorted too.

I think you only notice the bad/extreme stuff. I was watching Amanda Holden on the Jamie and Jimmys Friday takeaway and i was fixated by her face (and her bizarre constant carry on style double entendres ).

I have a very full mouth and people often think i have had my lips injected. I've stopped wearing certain lipsticks because i would get asked about it and once on the tube some people were obviously taking the piss out of me. Sometimes what looks like 'obvious' work is actually just the natural way people look.

Also my DH has no idea I have Botox or anything else. I just tell him I'm going for a facial. He's never noticed any difference.

You can have 'baby botox' or 'Botox sprinkles' which I hear are more natural.

I think and I hope we are moving away from the overdone/waxy face.

Yy to Amanda Holden. But if you watch X factor/britain's got talent and every week Amanda and alesha Dixon have to wear those dresses that show off 75% of their flesh and it basically says "I am here to be eye candy. This is what I am for" you can understand the huge pressure she is under, particularly as she is older than Alesha I think.

This is why I like that bake off is so popular. Mel, sue and Mary and now Sandi and Pru. All over 40 and looking fine. There to talk about baking or be daft, not be eye candy.

I think the question is, are we just seeing bad Botox? There are some celebs who look amazing I'm thinking Jennifer Anniston, Reese Witherspoon, Rachel Weiz, Gillian Anderson... all 40 plus, some near 50. Had work done but look good. I think that is the real point and it reminds me of the "transwomen never look like women." No, the ones who don't look like women don't look like women, the ones who look exactly like women well you just think they are women.

I used to work with the vice squad and we had one transwoman working our area and yes she looked like a woman, many a new member of the team would be gobsmacked after arresting her to find that she was trans and one customer was caught in the act with her and was most distressed when he found out he was with a transwoman. People still insist to me that they always know.

Agree Granny. It's like a hairpiece.

Completely agree grannytomine. There is good work out there but celebrities are under so much pressure that despite having lots of money, they're more likely to be the ones that overdo it or start too early.

I do believe methods are changing and surgeons are understanding less is more. I think initially it was thought; wipe out wrinkles, automatically you will look more youthful. Then we all realised that wasn't the case. It's an interesting subject.

Insecurity is marketed at us as young as in primary school ( lipsmackers, bratz dolls, adverts) and we reach and reach for this dangled perfection. It's hot the newest generation of adults hardest use to the higher level of marketing at us as children and the prevalence of SM/Celebrity culture. When clothes and hair and makeup don't do enough and fillers are advertised relatively cheap with no mind paid to the risks then people will get them.

Read 'Consumer Kids' - it was published in 2009 but still feels v relevant.

Actresses are under so much pressure that they no longer look authentic even when the role calls for it.

Years ago Penelope Cruz didnt shave her armpits while shooting Captain Corellis Mandolin. Because Greek girls didnt do that in the 1940s.

Ive been watching Outlander on More 4. Most of it is set in 1743 and the character Claire has now been there for over six months. But ive noticed during sex scenes her legs are completely hair free. How is she shaving..............in 1743.

Actresses do gain weight for roles and lose it again but it seems very rare that they are willing to give up their grooming regime for a role.

Im not having a go at her btw I just think its part of the pressure that they are under.

Um. Angelina Jolie doesn't look like the picture posted up thread anymore. In fact she recently claimed to have Bell's palsy which is widely rumoured to be a cover for plastic surgery going wrong.

Someone posted a link to Heather Locklear at an event for a Farrah Fawcett charity. I remembered seeing Farrah on tv and didn't know what was wrong with her. I wondered if she had Bell's Palsy. She was the first person I had ever seen with fillers. This was years ago, obviously.

It's the lies that are the most ridiculous, and it's not just celebrities. I saw a post on Facebook recently, a pic "liked" by one of my friends. Someone had posted about having a "makeup free day". Not only were her lips unnaturally pink, by they were also frosted. It wasn't fillers or plastic surgery, but still the falseness of it.

Nothing toxic?!

Er, it is all toxic.

Andylion Farrah died of anal cancer.

Re Outlander there was an amusing scene last season where Claire, after seeing a Frenchwoman being waxed, has a Brazilian and Jamie is shocked!

'So much misogyny on this thread sad it makes for depressing reading.'

Hogwash. Real misogyny is the normalisation of this distorted idea of beauty that can only be achieved using scalpels and needles. Women (and some men) are butchering themselves in the name of beauty. Young women who aren't even in their twenties are having unnecessary cosmetic surgery. And some people do look odd , there's no two ways about it.

Crizzle, I agree.

People can think what they like, discuss what they like but there is no need to make nasty personal remarks about people. Being nasty about Farah Fawcett Majors' appearance takes the biscuit, bit of respect for the dead?

These are all grown women and they don't need permission from anyone to do what they like as long as its legal.

Nothing toxic?!

Er, it is all toxic.

Hyaluronic acid is not toxic. It is produced in the body. Botulinum toxin type A is toxic. Fillers are not.

QueenoftheAndals Farrah died of anal cancer.

Oh, I know. This was years before her death.