to be freaked out by the frozen, filled faces littering our media

[PhelanGood]

Seriously. And I bet they all think nobody can tell! Will this trend ever end?

I'm often too distracted by the botoxed plumped juvedermed visages on display, to concentrate on what the bearer of said face is actually saying! Doesn't help that they can no longer engage viewers with natural facial expressions.

I find it fascinating and alarming that paying to have the world's deadliest poison injected into you is becoming the norm, especially when all it achieves is a face that doesn't move, and ultimately a weakening of the muscles, which surely are the thing we should be strengthening to prevent wrinkles long term..!? And concentrating on eliminating toxins!

(Obviously I'm not talking about its medicinal uses such as preventing migraines.)

Fillers are even worse, they look absolutely repugnant to me. Especially in the lips! Who wants to kiss a pair of plumped up plastic lips that look like you've had an allergic reaction.

Am I being unreasonable, and am I alone in finding this trend so disturbing and weird... do I need to get with the times? Are injectables just today's "whalebone corsets"? It's got to a point where I actually adore seeing lovely wrinkled faces on the screen as it's so rare now.

[PhelanGood]

@Floisme - well said! To me beauty is not about looking younger or line free. Each to their own. Your rationality has been a breath of fresh air through this thread.
@userlav I didn't make a point of personally attacking anyone. I and others commented that some particular women looked unrecognisable or that their faces didn't appear to move naturally after procedures, which made us question why they wanted this done and it led to a lively, respectful debate. Obviously if people pull a Zellwegger n rock up with a completely different face people are gonna talk about it.

[Floisme]

Women always had elevenses - there just wasn't always something they could do about it.
Yes they've always had them. I was watching ''Some like it hot' again the other night and Marilyn Monroe had them. I very much doubt anyone thought she was less beautiful. But now we have young (and not so young) women worrying in case someone might think they look angry and paying £200-£300 a pop just to get rid of them for a few months. Yes I find that weird, so shoot me.

[Userlavender]

Ps @loranmumsnet funny how it was ok when OP was personally attacking real life people in the media. Have I upset them? Been reported? Childish people getting out of their depth.

[Userlavender]

Yes @lorna - some people can give it out by can't take it. I shall leave delicate OP alone now.

[LornaMumsnet]

Ahem

Can we steer clear of personal attacks and have a bit of peace and love, folks?

[Userlavender]

@Floisme nothing wrong with that but demanding that women all take that stance - which was implied by OP - is wrong. Women always had elevenses - there just wasn't always something they could do about it.

[Floisme]

But what's wrong about encouraging 'a love of wrinkles'? That makes far more sense to me than fighting something that's going to happen anyway.

And you can dismiss it all you like but the media, including social media, has played a massive part in this. It's contributed to women being afraid of things that I don't think even had a name 30-odd years ago - the dreaded 'number 11s' being one example.

[Userlavender]

@phalan no i'm not. I can see exactly the point you are making - and I can see your smug attitude too - made worse by you projecting your victim status onto the media and expecting them and all women everywhere to be a role model for what you dictate is right. Mutter on.

[PhelanGood]

Excuse short reply but am at the school gates, playing the victim again eh Phelan. I will reply if and when you rephrase what you said to reflect my actual thoughts and remove the personal insults.

[PhelanGood]

You're completely twisting my words

[Userlavender]

I'm talking about you. YOU clearly have a problem with all types of injectables and surgery. That's your prerogative - but wanting to encourage a love of wrinkles and blaming the media? And pointing at other women who undoubtedly can see for themselves they've been botched? No. You're bitchy - in the most fake 'curious' way of all.

[PhelanGood]

In what way does people pointing out that botox looks weird, stop women from getting information about procedures before they have them? It's their responsibility to read up on the facts and there are plenty of places they can do that. One of the facts /risks is that it can make you look weird in other people's eyes, surely it's better that they're aware of this fact. People discussing their opinions openly and frankly is one way of doing this, if a friend of mine had a botched lip filler job, no matter how many Facebook likes her pics of her new lips got, i would be gently honest with her that I felt they looked better before. She would be free to ignore my opinion but it would be kinder than laughing behind her back as others would likely be doing.

People have created threads on mumsnet before looking for advice on injectables and got very helpful posts in return from others who've had them.

It definitely isn't just women who think it looks weird, and there are many very high profile female practitioners who offer the services. I don't really understand your point about men laughing all the way to the bank.

I certainly agree more education is needed about the health risks.

[Userlavender]

Ps who knows - maybe Liz Hurley hasn't had anything done. But regardless - she looks amazing. So does Kelly Brook. The women who don't look so amazing - for whatever reason - will never be pointed out by me

[Userlavender]

Exactly. Liz Hurley anyone? Doesn't look plastic to me. Also doesn't look 54.

[stopgap]

You can have "good work". Julianne Moore, Cate Blanchett and Salma Hayek spring to mind.

[Userlavender]

Full discolsure - i work in creative services and do content writing for a couple of surgeons and sometimes film surgeries for snapchat. The amount of women i have seen turn up with zero clue / no information and acting sheepish and ashamed when they are adults ranging from 20-70 makes me mad. They would be in a much better and less vulnerable position if they weren't made to feel like this by the judgement of other women. What's funny is that it's usually a male practitioner who is laughing all the way to the bank as a result - because other women make women feel like shit for wanting to do anything and then they are easy targets. Ironic.

[Userlavender]

@floisme - this is true but they get away with 'normalising' it because people are so reluctant to be upfront. I have lived in the US before and they are more honest about it. I think it is a good thing that there are more consumer surgery review sites now that hold practitioners to account - no back door botches without being named and shamed. I think women already feel insecure and that these procedures fill a need, or apparent 'need'. What I don't like is when all procedures are passed off as safe. For instance - i know that sculptra is a common filler. I also know that it stimulates inflammation and should not be used in people with auto-immune / underlying auto- immune conditions. I wonder how many doctors tell their patients to read the small print. I would never have sculptra - many women have and will but i wonder what the effects will be down the line. Again if it wasn't so secretive this would be easier information to share. I haven't had anything done yet but im sure i will eventually. Also most of the people who look 'weird' they've just had too much botox around their eyes - it makes for a pennywise smile 99% of the time.

[Floisme]

I haven't singled out any women on this thread but I'm still interested in what they're doing to their faces, especially when they insist it's nothing but Ponds Cold Cream or that it's only about looking 'fresher' or 'the best version of yourself'. (What the fuck does that even mean?)

I don't think 'it's no-one else's business' cuts it. The beauty industry is making a shitload of money by normalising these procedures and by making women feel even even more insecure about their looks than they do already. That's worth a discussion. I'd prefer it if we could talk about it without pointing and laughing but how it looks is partly (although not entirely) the point.

[Userlavender]

ALso what's respectful about 'have you seen x named woman in x advert? Omg she looks awful i barely recognised here' nasty witch bitches with these comments

[Userlavender]

@phelan i'm not here to be kind - i'm here to say what i think because this particular topic bothers me. Beauty is science - fertility, youth, health, wealth. It's all part of a subconscious goal we aspire to. Some people do not WANT to embrace wrinkles - you or media encouraging them with self love or whatever it is you are spouting will not change that. Yes some women look like shit and plastic - that is UNFORTUNATE. Do you really think anyone wants to look like that? It happens - just a shame it's usually more permanent than a bad perm or whatever would have been the equivalent years ago. I just don't see your point - you have said that a lot of women look like shit from surgery etc and you have said that you want to help them to embrace being old. I think what you need to understand is that your opinion about people's attitudes towards ageing isn't always from the media - sometimes it comes from within and nothing anyone says will change that. Regulating the cosmetics industry - making sure people don't get 'botched' - being more transparent about risks - this is what will help women and help them do what they want safely. Your ideas will never help. Because you are judgemental - however much you pretend not to be. I'm not buying it. Take your feigned innocence to someone stupid enough to believe it.

[PhelanGood]

@userlav - I'm not anorexic, I'm recovered. Why is it weird that I don't want the next generation to grow up in a world where they are encouraged to fit some unnatural ideal? Why is it weird that I want society to stop bullying people for their wrinkles? I can't understand why you've barged onto this thread focusing on what kind of woman I am instead of joining a respectful debate. It's a shame as you have some valid points to make. By all means use your own experiences to support your views they way I and others have done. But coming on here and launching on people for sharing their stories is an unkind thing to do.

[Userlavender]

@phelan just stop - now you're anorexic and also tired so your singling out of individual women has to be excused. I can tell you are interested in other people's faces - a bit too much for your own good.

[PhelanGood]

Ugh sorry that didn't flow well, I'm so tired. Just to add, if you'd read the full thread - people who have been open on here about what they've had done haven't been judged, whatever their reason was. I'm open minded, interested, even intrigued to hear people's reasons. Everyone's been pretty respectful. If people are ashamed or embarrassed to admit what stuff they've had done and why, it may not be for fear of being judged. Maybe they want people to think their looks are natural.