Religion

[crazydil]

There have been a few threads in regards to religion and without exception there are always a few posters who cannot help themselves from being disrespectful.

Is it difficult to get a point across without a slight dig? Criticism is part of a healthy discussion but to be so rude about something that is very important to some. ..is it really needed?
I've never felt the need to be rude about anyones belief no matter how strange I find it to be.

So basically aibu in expecting respect in any conversation

Upper class, maybe from families who have stayed catholic from since before Henry VIII. Hence schools like Stoneyhurst

As far as I am aware my middle class Catholic family had no connections whatsoever with an immigrant group (or if it was, so far back as to be irrelevant) Although I agree that the influence of one particular aristocratic family in my part of the world probably assisted in Catholicism remaining an indigenous religion.

Well atheism has a belief that we all evolved from nothing

No it isn't. See the first law of thermodynamics.

Some of the religious advocates are so completely fucking clueless. No wonder they'll swallow the nonsense in the bible when they're so wilfully ignorant about science.

Perhaps you can explain something that world renowned physicists can't then.

Well atheism has a belief that we all evolved from nothing. Absolutely no evidence of that, scientists can't explain how something can come from nothing, and yet atheists are blindly following that even though science tells us it can't happen.

The only thing that all atheists believe is that the evidence for a god is not at all compelling. there is not necessarily a common belief on science (though no doubt most believe in evolution), nor physics, economics, or moral philosophy.

My personal belief is that I don't know really. I am not a physicist, but I do know the view isn't that POOF and out goes the universe. it is more subtle than that both logically and physically. In any case, very little of the rest of my beliefs find their foundations on how I think the universe started. The conviction with which I hold those beliefs is commensurate with the evidence I have seen.

I find religious faith , all of them, completely mystifying. I can't recall there being a time when I believed in a god.

You can disagree without being rude. I find the rudeness stifles cogent discussion and the opportunity to learn from others' beliefs and opinions

Other than a general idea of being kind and considerate (which I don't think we need a religion for) I'm not sure what there is for me to learn from someone else's religion.

I used to be fascinated by mythology. I read and read and read about Greek , Roman, Norse, Celtic mythology , knew a reasonable amount about Polynesian and North and South American myth.

I never got why they were wrong (well obviously any that involved living sacrifice were wrong) but the Abrahamic faiths are right.

So lets say I believe you look ridiculous in a pair of jeans. You may think you look great. How about a round of mocking to put you in your place eh?

Absurd comparison.

Religions in general and the established church in general have a degree of unelected, unaccountable power over public life and all sorts of protection that other sorts of belief systems don't have. In order to hold them to account and shine some sort of light onto their cruel and absurd positions, them satire is a valid and essential tool. If the teaching of a religion advocates that rape is not grounds for abortion or a man shoving his cock in another man's arse is a mortal sin, then they deserve our scorn, rage and mockery. Life of Brian and Jerry Springer the opera showed the absurdities and hypocrisies inherent in religion.

Telling me I look like a right tubster in a pair of skinny jeans isn't of the same order at all.

Perhaps you can explain something that world renowned physicists can't then

[Bangs head off desk] the university did not emerge from nothing. We've known that since the 18th century.

lass

Interesting about your family.
I did use the disclaimer 'I think'.
I suppose it wasn't just the mega rich catholics who survived the reformation and following centuries.

Lass & isit yes, I'm sure there are regional variations like that. I'm in northwest of England ...so, geography and history (the port of Liverpool, canal building, industrialisation) undoubtedly give rise to a different mix than rural Aberdeenshire, or (at random) Sussex.

There is a reasonable sized Catholic presence throughout Aberdeenshire, Morayshire, Buchan, Nairn and into the Highlands.

I'm quoting wiki now
several pockets in Scotland retained a significant pre-Reformation Catholic population, including parts of Banffshire, the Hebrides, and more northern parts of the Scottish Highlands

That was always the impression I had.

The bizarre, utterly bizarre, thing is that despite having no religious faith myself I'm oddly pleased that my family might be /probably is pre-Reformation Catholic!

Of course, Scotland is religiously distinct from the rest of the UK - the Church of Scotland is presbyterian not anglican, and the Queen is not its head. Close ties to Catholic France maybe relevant?

And I'm pleased my family heritage is Nonconformist, from a denomination which ordained women as ministers before the state had granted them a vote.

I think there might be a French connection.

As you say The Church of Scotland is Presbyterian, not Anglican and isn't a national church.
The Anglican church in Scotland is the Scottish Episcopal Church andhas quite a distinct identity. I really admire Richard Holloway(although he is no longer Primus) I think if I were ever to get religion the only likelihood of it happening would be in St . Mary's Episcopal catherdral in Edinburgh listening to their superb choir.

Thank you Princess Is this why some Muslim communities don't wear the veil? Thinking about Kosovans, don't think I've met a Kosovan Muslim who wears a veil.

Not all persecuted Christians are persecuted by those from other religions. N Korea, China eg

North Korea's 'religeon' is their worship of leadership. They may not call it a religion but in practice that is what it is.

If that person wants to wear ridiculous jeans and other appalling fashion choices- good for them.

But when that person starts making laws about what i should wear too based on their mistaken belief in fasion , they will be rightly told to sod off and their fashion choices mocked

"How can something come from nothing" is this decade's "If we evolved from monkeys why are there still monkeys" isn't it?

A quick Google will provide the answer to both questions. You will have to look a little further afield than answersingenesis.org.though.

[Bangs head off desk] the university did not emerge from nothing. We've known that since the 18th century.
What absolute nonsense, we've known no such thing.

What absolute nonsense, we've known no such thing. grin

Riiiight. If you say so.

I'm going to follow my father's advice and avoid entering a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

e of the superstars of atheism (like Richard Dawkins, for example) are unnecessarily rude

Are they though? I'm not sure I've ever heard RD actually being 'rude'. Forthright, yes. He does quite a lot of asking mild questions and just looking on as the religious person digs themselves into a hole of illogic.
On the contrary, RD has many a time dug himself into a hole of illogic.

I don't personally care for Dawkins as a person, although his books are very good reads. But when has he ever "dug himself into a hole of illogic."?

Thats fine boysofmelody we all have our beliefs, just because i cant prove there is a God doesnt mean there isnt one. But arguing with atheists is a stressful affair, I really should stay off these threads. Atheists always get angry, patronise and ridicule. I always find it odd that something they dont believe in brings out such passion.

You're on a loser arguing the toss with Rose , Bertrand she'll just say 'He has' and 'He speaks nonsense'. She doesn't do anything as prosaic as facts or evidence. Just makes inaccurate declamatory statements.

RD has many a time dug himself into a hole of illogic.

I don't think you're in a position to call anyone or their works 'illogical', after using several bible quotes to supposedly make a point.

A quick google search bertrand