Political correctness gone mad - parents under fire from withdrawing their child from school after male class mate wears a dress.

[ThaiRedCurry]

Ok so just catching up with my mail online news before bed. I've seen a Christian couple have withdrawn their son from school due to his male, 6 year old class mate wearing a dress to school.
They where on This Morning and have come under fire from viewers and the presenters for their decision to remove their son from the school as they don't agree with a boy wearing a dress.
I will just say I would find it a little odd but wouldn't withdraw my child from school.
I can't help but feel that if another race/religion did the same thing they wouldn't come under fire. It's as if white British folk are trying to be so politically correct we no longer can see what is ok and what isn't incase we offend some one.
I feel political correctness has gone mad 😖
I'm now going to sit and wait for Mums net abuse to roll in.

Polliver, I don't know what you think biological sex is if you don't think we categorise people by it. Not about what they think/do/feel/wear but about what their DNA is and what and where their reproductive
organs are. And women are and have been disadvantaged and oppressed across the globe, and throughout history, because of their biology, which is unchanging.

Curry, thank you for your posts. I too wish we could campaign for the services you need.

no-one has managed to come up with a definition of "living as a woman" or "feeling like a woman".

How does one 'woman' know that what she experiences as 'feeling' like a woman is the same as any other women experiences. So how can anyone say a trans-woman does not have the seem feelings. Maybe the feelings we have of 'being a woman' are not actually anything to do with being a woman and only to do with being a discriminated group, a race, an anything?

By that same argument how does a trans woman declare that they feel like a woman then?

Woman isn't a feeling.

Datun, thanks. I don't know if it's dysphoria or just, you know, not wanting to conform to rigid gender rules. (He's 12, and last year he was talking about wanting to be a girl, so we had a long talk about biology and feelings and stuff. We ended up agreeing that growing up is difficult and confusing and that his dad and I would love him no matter what and he could always talk to us, but that there was no need to rush into anything. He likes having his hair long and has occaisionally talked about wanting to wear a dress. At present, though, he still likes his long hair but is getting slightly narked at people who call him Miss or Little Girl...)

'Feeling like a woman' has got nothing to do with being a woman. It's simply not a feeling. That's not the definition. You might feel like a woman, because you are one. Because you know what your body looks like and feels like. Because it does what it's meant to do, or doesn't. Because you get treated like one.

But if someone treated me exactly like a man, it wouldn't make me one. Or, if I somehow felt male, it still wouldn't make me a man. Because that's not the definition.

There is no quantifiable way of saying anyone "feels like" a woman, or a man, or a transwoman or a transman

So in this case it might be more accurate to say the child does not feel comfortable being the stereotype that is forced upon them.

And a humanist response should be, let the child be what ever they need to be so they can figure what makes them feel comfortable. Not this religious bullying.

Or the humanist response would be to help the child - and society - learn to get past the stereotypes rather than to let or even encourage them to believe they are something they can never fully be.

In the majority of cases I think it's far more humane to explain the reality of biology and then to discuss stereotypes rather than the alternative

Where's the OP, by the way.

Or is this another fact finding mission ?

We must have some really fucking odd kids in our family. DD brought her FtM boyfriend to a family party lately.

Not a single one of the children aged between 2 and 14 (and there are a lot of them) judged or became 'distressed'. They asked "How come Henrietta is called Harry now." Were told "because he wants to be." and that was that.

Children tend to be a lot more accepting that adults if they haven't been raised to be prejudiced.

The six year old being labelled as transgender is a bit unsettling to me. It seems a bit young to be sticking a label on a kid and I do think a lot of children (and some adults) are bandwagon jumping in a way (dd has three transgender friends) and will grow out of this phase in time but I don't think they should be discriminated against in the meantime.

If anyone is wondering which side the discrimination, prejudice and violence is coming from, take a look at the tnread link below. A talk about gender, to which Stonewall were invited. They accepted, and then withdrew.

The ideology does not stand up to scrutiny. It collapses like a house of cards and they know it. They are unwilling to debate.

Now, under threats of violence and worries about security, the venue is having to change and there is confusion about how to locate the subsequent place.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3031380-calling-all-london-spartaci?watched=1&msgid=71877204#71877204

ReanimatedSGB

If he's baulking at being called Miss, etc, it may just be that he is exploring breaking free of gender stereotypes.

Either way, well done, for your reaction. No one suggests that children shouldn't be supported. It's the course that support takes, which can be the concern. You sound like you're doing exactly the right thing.

Personally, I love long hair on a bloke. My own son has a mop of the stuff. If he wanted to do it in a bun, a plait, or completely shaved, I'd be fine. I do, however, like it to be clean!

It looks like Stewart Lee's nan has joined Mumsnet.

"It's that red Robbo up the Leyland Stew, he says we can't have a cup of tea in case it upsets a queer"

but I don't think they should be discriminated against in the meantime

I don't think there's anybody here that thinks people should be discriminated against for being gender nonconforming, Frequency. Throughout my life I've known women who have taken male names - some have been straight, presenting female, and it's just a nickname, others have been gender nonconforming and the male or unisex name is a way of distancing themselves from the gender trappings of femininity - they are still female, just not "feminine".

That's never been a problem. Forcing other people to say that a boy is a girl and a girl is a boy, instead of just there being all different kinds of boys and girls and that's OK - that is a problem. And it isn't discrimination against any trans people not to go along with the fiction that while you can change gender presentation, you cannot change sex.

Double-negative there, I think - the damaging fiction is that you can change gender presentation AND you can change sex.

Change gender presentation all you like, but in reality nobody can change sex. And you shouldn't force people to lie and say you can, and you shouldn't lie to kids and say it's possible. Just let them wear whatever they like, call themselves whatever they like, and love them whether they are gender nonconforming or not.

www.mrctv.org/blog/52-year-old-father-lives-6-year-old-girl

Ok so who would support this 52 year old father of 7 (who he has now deserted) in his right to live as a 6 year old girl. Presumably he would have the right to be in a class with these children.

At age 46, Wolscht deserted his wife and his seven children to live his “true” life.

“There’s days I forget my past,” Wolscht says. “I can actually go a week without even thinking about what was before.”

“I can’t deny I was married. I can’t deny I have children,” Wolscht admits. “But I’ve moved forward now and I’ve gone back to being a child. I don’t want to be an adult right now and I just live my life like I couldn’t when I was in school.”

Wolscht is not speaking in an abstract sense. He actually wants to be a child.

He explains, “Well, I have a mummy and a daddy. [An] adopted mummy and daddy who are totally comfortable with me being a little girl. And their children, and their grandchildren, are totally supportive. In fact, her youngest granddaughter… When I was eight. A year ago, I was eight, and she was seven. And she said to me, ‘I want you to be the little sister, so I’ll be nine.’ I said, ‘Well, I don’t mind going to six.' So I’ve been six ever since.”

“We have a great time. We color, we do kids stuff. It’s called play therapy. No medication, no suicide thoughts. And I just get to play,” Wolscht says.

And Wolscht blogs about sex with his "adopted daddy", which he has while in his persona of a six-year-old girl. He has playdates with real little girls. His Pinterest is a nightmare mix of pictures of real children and fetish porn. (Or it was - I don't want to have to destroy my hard drive so I am not going to look again.)

This is no random perv. Wolscht is accepted as genuine and indeed was thanked in the Canadian Parliament for advising on trans-friendly legislation. I know people I thought were sensible who accept Wolscht entirely.

I also know transwomen - old-school transwomen, the ones who actually transition, don't insist they are biologically female, and who don't seek to destroy women-only spaces - who are furious that someone like Wolscht is given such credibility by "trans allies". I don't blame them one bit.

I try to not let the more extreme examples cloud my judgement when I'm thinking about the issue overall.

That said, wolscht vom

Indeed. Wolscht goes to great lengths to brag about the anal sex he has with his adopted father. He claims it made him feel so much like a real girl that he was surprised he didn't get pregnant.

After which, he plays with this man's children.

He also made a trans promotional film, in the guise of a six year old girl, where he didn't know which toilet he was supposed to use, so he squatted to urinate in a bucket in the foyer.

He also phoned his daughter on her wedding day and threatened to kill himself.

It's not shocking that there is a horrible, paedophile creep like this in the world.

it is beyond comprehension that the trans community was happy to let him represent them.

To whom, exactly, can this man ever be acceptable?

StatisticallyChallenged

I agree that it's unfair to trans people in general to consider that these people are representative.

But. Every single creep like this will have access to female spaces if self identification goes ahead.

Not all men are dangerous, obviously, but all dangerous men will have access.

Men who don't want to violate women's boundaries will remain just that. Non violating, harmless men.

This legislation will mean nothing to them. It will mean everything to those who wish harm to women.

Wolscht...........sick........depraved......vile......

Wolscht! 😱😡
I can't believe that such a depraved individual has been validated by the Canadian government!!

I don't disagree datun, all I meant was that I think it's helpful to think about the wider issues too. The issues of women's safety are fundamental though

*Men who don't want to violate women's boundaries will remain just that. Non violating, harmless men.

This legislation will mean nothing to them. It will mean everything to those who wish harm to women.*

This is what worries me that no one seems to realise. All the nice normal men can't see what women are worrying about as they wouldn't want to access the women's spaces anyway. And women are conditioned to be so nice and accepting and not make a fuss.