Political correctness gone mad - parents under fire from withdrawing their child from school after male class mate wears a dress.

[ThaiRedCurry]

Ok so just catching up with my mail online news before bed. I've seen a Christian couple have withdrawn their son from school due to his male, 6 year old class mate wearing a dress to school.
They where on This Morning and have come under fire from viewers and the presenters for their decision to remove their son from the school as they don't agree with a boy wearing a dress.
I will just say I would find it a little odd but wouldn't withdraw my child from school.
I can't help but feel that if another race/religion did the same thing they wouldn't come under fire. It's as if white British folk are trying to be so politically correct we no longer can see what is ok and what isn't incase we offend some one.
I feel political correctness has gone mad 😖
I'm now going to sit and wait for Mums net abuse to roll in.

Telling people struggling with gender dysphoria (which would be more accurately described as sex dysphoria) that it's possible to change sex might not always be helpful and in some cases can be very harmful. I know it would have been to me when I was younger.

You can take hormones and have surgery to make your body look like the opposite sex but you still won't actually be the opposite sex.

Polliver not Polver what the hell happened there?

Thank you (as always) for your thoughful and insightful posts, Curry (and also the other trans poster upthread - not sure she's "out" so I won't name check - who made the point that at 6 you can't tell between a child who will go on to be trans, one who is gender non-conforming and one who simply likes wearing dresses).

I wish there was some way we could campaign for the support services you and others need, Curry. And for having been on the receiving end of violence. I hope you are surrounded by more tolerant people these days.

In one of the early sessions they were given a case study of a transwoman who has developed dementia. She had had the full surgical realignment earlier in life. However, in the throes of dementia she is now even more confused by her body not being what she thinks it should be - because she has reverted mentally to a time when she had a male body and thinks she is a man. That was the sum total of the summary my colleague gave me so I know no more about it than that.

That's interesting. One genderist myth is that transwomen "have always been women".

The man in this case study seems to be one of the more plausible cases of transsexuality, as he actually got surgery (which many modern "transwomen" don't, choosing to instead force everyone to pretend that their penis is female), implying that he experienced real dysphoria about his male body - and he still felt confused.
If he had wanted to get rid of his penis as toddler, he would still remember that in dementia - and he apparently was not so confused by the fact that he was an adult, something that one would expect if his mind had reverted to a time before puberty.

Telling people struggling with gender dysphoria (which would be more accurately described as sex dysphoria) that it's possible to change sex might not always be helpful and in some cases can be very harmful.

Especially since some really don't know better. There are people out there who truly believe that modern medicine can turn a man into a woman, and vice versa. Who seriously ask what surgery they have to get (as males) so they can get pregnant.

At 6 years old, even in countries with decent sex ed there could be children who don't know that this isn't possible. At best, they'll be very disappointed and confused when their biology teacher tells them how complex reproductive organs are, and the slow realisation sets in that it is not possible.

And in countries with no decent sex ed, some might only find out after the hormones have rendered their body sterile already.

@Polliver "try to keep up, dear" - are you the ghost of Michael Winner?

What kind of a society would we be if every 'religious' family was entitled to force everyone else in a school to conform to the religious beliefs that they had chosen to indoctrinate their snowflake with. What about gender separation, creationism, full body coverings, prayers, homophobia... Christ we could end up like America!

I don't disagree with you, I'd like to keep religion out of schools.

It's always incredibly useful when trans people contribute to these threads.

What happened to you curry was bloody disgusting. And yes, that is exactly what I would term transphobia.

It really doesn't help when well-meaning posters put misgendering and wanting to keep spaces separated by sex under the same term. It just shuts down discussion.

Does anyone really think that women, and feminists particularly, are prejudicial towards trans people? Feminists champion minorities. That's what they do.

The fact that they understand women are disadvantaged in our society, in favour of men, is the sticking point. It's not about being trans, being a minority, being discriminated against. It really isn't. It's about women maintaining their own boundaries. And about how damaging gender stereotypes are, for men, women trans people and children.

Transactivists are throwing everyone under the bus, in a supremely arrogant act of self interest. And they are mostly made up of men with a sexual fetish.

As always agree with Datun.

I agree with willow in that I have no idea how it "feels"to be a female any more than how it feels to have brown eyes. .
I am one biologically and really that's the only definition that actually matters.
But I. Am an individual and therefore unique.
Your sex is only to do with your physiology.

Thanks SirVix. You rarely, if ever, see transactivists on here spouting their abhorrent misogyny.

It's usually people who are genuinely, sincerely shocked.

Because they don't dismantle the ideology into its constituent parts. They just see it as being cruel and disrespectful.

All I would ever ask is for people to listen. That's it.

Feminists, particularly, have drilled down into this ideology to the nth degree. They don't object for superficial reasons. It's not about maintaining a club, or being excluding. It's not even about just a principle.

It's about the reason why women are disadvantaged. And enforcing gender stereotypes is the crux of it.

Women aren't disadvantaged because they feel a certain way, or because they wear a certain mode of dress. You can't identify the class of women based on those things. It's about the fact that they have a different biological function. That's only means by which are identified.

Donald Trump withdrawing funds from organisations to provide abortion, doesn't base that on whether they wear a frock or 'identify' as women but based on the fact that they have female biology. It's really that simple.

Biology matters because women are at a disadvantage due to it, otherwise no-one would give a fuck and we could all go home.

It is true about trump administration. One man think he shouldn't have to pay extra money on insurance to cover women's healthcare. He think he should pay for services(coverage) that benefits him.(of course, if they go down that route, we shouldn't have to pay for prostate cancer because it is not our problem, right?)

Biology matters because women are at a disadvantage due to it, otherwise no-one would give a fuck and we could all go home.

Absofuckinglutely brilliant, thanks Datun

Yes, thanks Datun, for fighting for women and girls, and to curry , for the same, when it might have been easier to stay quiet.

for the same, when it might have been easier to stay quiet.

curry's actual skin in the game is that they don't want to be tarred with the same brush as transactivists and they see treatment for gender dysphoria vanishing.

The fact that they stand up for women is, in a way, outside their personal remit. It's not necessary or crucial to their way of life, and I for one, am always impressed by their grasp of what it means to women.

If curry was representative of what it means to be trans, again, we could all pack up and go home.

Furthermore, I would fight alongside them. To be accepted and understood.

Women and trans women could be a massive, effective force.

Truly, we could change the world.

We could stop expecting women to adhere to gender stereotypes. We could stop expecting men to live up to toxic masculinity.

We could actually buck the fucking system.

Oh look at that; all of the you are all so transphobic, you have no idea what it's like being trans, etc posters all disappear as soon as Curry arrives on the thread. What a surprise.

Curry is a transwoman who acknowledges that she isn't really a woman and that her experience of being a transwoman is different to that of women.

She accepts that she doesn't really know what it's like to be a woman whilst also acknowledging that transwomens face their own unique struggles. For some reason that seems to confuse people because they refuse to talk to her. Ironic really because you'd think all those 'you need to go educate yourself you ignorant bigots' posters would jump at the chance of getting a transwoman's point of view.

ferrets

currys probably not the right type of transwoman

No offense curry

Yes, the existence of misogyny and the gender hierarchy is always the sticking point. I've got a little skin in the game as I have a gender-non-conforming kid and I worry a lot about the next few years of his life. I'd be happy for him to wear all the dresses he wants, have sex with whatever other consenting adults he wants to when he's mature enough) take any job he wants - but I am petrified of him being persuaded down the drugs-and-surgery route when it isn't what he needs.

Absolutely Rufus. Because curry is a normal person who doesn't want to violate women's boundaries. curry wants to present as female. Go for it. Fuck me, who wouldn't accommodate that?

curry has experiences and issues different to those of women. And men. Why would anyone not understand that?

ReanimatedSGB

Gender dysphoria is a real and crippling condition. For you, as a parent, it must be a minefield, if he has that.

My only advice would be to keep him off the Internet, whilst you go on it.

We have had quite a few parents on here whose children are presenting as trans.

There are, certainly, things you can do. However, it doesn't always work out like that.

If you can spend the time to search the feminist boards, you will see other parents in your situation. If you want to PM me, I can put you in touch with them if you can't find them.

Polliver???

Oh Deja Vu then?

VestalVirgin I've just had a quick search online (very brief because I need to go to bed) and while it's not an individual case study this study by the Association for Dementia Studies at University of Worcester and DEEP (The Dementia Engagement and Empowerment Project) looked at the issues impacting LGBT people with dementia. Pages 11 and 12 specifically look at trans identity and dementia and, as well as the reference to anecdotal accounts of denial of services and abuse of trans people in care settings, talks about how "cognitive difficulties may cause particular challenges in maintaining gender identity". It's only a short section, and I haven't read the PDF in full yet, but it does raise several interesting issues.