Political correctness gone mad - parents under fire from withdrawing their child from school after male class mate wears a dress.

[ThaiRedCurry]

Ok so just catching up with my mail online news before bed. I've seen a Christian couple have withdrawn their son from school due to his male, 6 year old class mate wearing a dress to school.
They where on This Morning and have come under fire from viewers and the presenters for their decision to remove their son from the school as they don't agree with a boy wearing a dress.
I will just say I would find it a little odd but wouldn't withdraw my child from school.
I can't help but feel that if another race/religion did the same thing they wouldn't come under fire. It's as if white British folk are trying to be so politically correct we no longer can see what is ok and what isn't incase we offend some one.
I feel political correctness has gone mad 😖
I'm now going to sit and wait for Mums net abuse to roll in.

The suicide stats are not as you are making out, assuming they've come from the same lengthy report as I'm reading.

Firstly, that 41% is attempts, not people who commit suicide. Big difference.

Secondly, and very crucially, the survey did not directly explore mental health status and history which is very important when the co morbidity of transgenderism with other mental health conditions, and with other issues such as autism, is enormous, and it is very difficult to unpick causation from correlation in this area.

The analysis I found also identifies issues with how the survey was performed (it's a survey which focused specifically on discrimination so likely to have been a slightly self selecting sample), the question which was asked (lacked subtlety and tends to lead to increased positive responses) and the fact there is no info about how attempts corresponds with actual suicides.

The whole "if you don't support trans people they'll commit suicide" line is disgraceful and grossly oversimplifies the issues which are often underlying.

There's also, more importantly, research which suggests that fully transitioning doesn't lead to better outcomes. Telling people that they can become the opposite sex isn't helping them as in many ways it's a fruitless quest. The sad reality is that the proportion who will ever be able to live a transitioned life which matches their vision is very small. Societal change in terms of accepting that people should be able to live, dress etc how they want is needed to improve the situation, but so too is more honesty and realism.

Polliver

And what do you do if a man claiming to be a woman is staring at your genitalia? Or your daughter's?

Or not even staring, just glancing around, as people do in changing rooms. A man who wants to violate a woman's boundaries has to do very little to achieve that.

And you will be the bigot for calling it out.

A man can glance over at you every few minutes, that's not illegal, in a changing room.

Name calling me as creepy is offensive and very silly !

"@PortiaCastis just an idea, but maybe don't stare at people's genitalia in public changing rooms? It would solve your problem AND make you less creepy. Bonus"

Blimey. "Woman, know thy place" or what!

Polliver, it would be great if you could answer my post of 17.02?

Polliver, genetics determine whether we are male or female. That's it. I have spent my life saying that. People can identify as whatever gender they want, given it is a social construct (I'd chuck the social construct, personally, as it is old-fashioned, restrictive and oppressive).

Everyone should be able to think/dress/behave how the hell they like (within the law and without harming others) - none of that changes their sex.

Can you define sex and gender please? You seem to use them interchangeably.

@MsMartini did we not do this about an hour ago? Sex is biological, gender is the social construct that some people choose to live by, and others don't. I'm getting bored now.

It's quite sad to see some people who are desperate to present themselves to the world as liberal and progressive supporting an ideology that is profoundly misogynistic and homophobic. That's what happens when you switch off your critical faculties, I guess.

PortiaCastis

Name calling me as creepy is offensive and very silly !

It's passive aggressive bullshit that's been going on the last few pages.

There's a lot of aggression from Trans people against women and I think it may stem from the fact they would get very short shrift from men so focus their bullying on women.

Anything that puts a rapist in close proximity to vulnerable women is absurd and needs nipped in the bud asap.

Aeroflotgirl

You wouldnt care that your child was told to lie about something or they would be punished for it? Ok then.

It's really weird, I heard the parents interviewed y'day on Today, and despite repeated questioning, they insisted that their objection was just to the clothing ("and he wears girls' shoes too...."). The interviewer asked outright if it was just the clothes to which they replied affirmatively. I musthave answered the door or something when the stuff about being required to use different pronouns was discussed?

They did say that "these things" should be dealt with at home, which left me a bit gobsmacked.

Today 17:46 Polliver

@MsMartini did we not do this about an hour ago? Sex is biological, gender is the social construct that some people choose to live by, and others don't. I'm getting bored now.

Well perhaps we all agree then?

The only thing I would add is that despite gender being socially constructed, it's very real. It's a hierarchy. With women underneath.

*@VeryCunningStunt my point is that people's identities are made up of more than genetics. Do try to keep up, dear@

@Polliver And my point is that regardless of what gender someone identifies as, they incontrovertibly remain the same sex that they always were, and that will never change. Do try to keep up, dear.

@BertrandRussell the one where you asked me to back up my assertion that trans people should be treated as the gender they identify with, and are entitled to equal rights and freedom from persecution - with a scientific paper? I ignored that question, dear. I have already stated that my equal opportunities/transgender training has mainly been provided by Stonewall.

Polliver, it would be great if you could answer my post of 17.02?

Yeah, that'll happen

Polliver- are you happy to say who trained you and to link to the academic papers that support your position? Or is that too "boring"?

@VeryCunningStunt why is that so important to you, though?

Poliver you're completely ignoring a relevant point and are resorting to name calling

My point is that there are no academic papers that say 'treat all human beings as equals, regardless of their gender identity or sexual orientation'. Asking for a bibliography for what I see as common decency is pretty obtuse of you.

Polliver

My point is that there are no academic papers that say 'treat all human beings as equals, regardless of their gender identity or sexual orientation'. Asking for a bibliography for what I see as common decency is pretty obtuse of you.

What is decent about asking your 6 year old child to live a lie?

Considering that you have chosen the screen name 'Bertrand Russell' it is strange that the central message of humanism is so alien to you.

Nobody is asking their 6 year old to do anything, @EamonnWright. If children grow up to decide that they need to live as a man/woman then we need to take our cue from them and support them

"My point is that there are no academic papers that say 'treat all human beings as equals, regardless of their gender identity or sexual orientation'. i agree with you. But you will, presumably, have done a lot of academic study as part of your training, so it should be easy to link to the papers that talk about using sex as a way of differentiating people being outdated?

I'm talking about the children who have to call a male, a female.

@VeryCunningStunt why is that so important to you, though?

It's important to me because I see women's rights being systematically eroded by the fallacy that saying 'I am a woman because I feel like I am' overrides biology, a dangerous fallacy that, for example, puts male rapists into women's prisons and pushes female athletes into second place against biologically male athletes with all of the incumbent physiological advantages.

That's why it's important to me. Wear what you like, choose whatever name you think suits you. But don't pretend you magically 'changed sex', because it is a fallacy, and one that society is being pressured to collude in for fear of being labelled transphobic or bigoted by virtue of refusing to denounce the fact of biological sex.