Political correctness gone mad - parents under fire from withdrawing their child from school after male class mate wears a dress.

[ThaiRedCurry]

Ok so just catching up with my mail online news before bed. I've seen a Christian couple have withdrawn their son from school due to his male, 6 year old class mate wearing a dress to school.
They where on This Morning and have come under fire from viewers and the presenters for their decision to remove their son from the school as they don't agree with a boy wearing a dress.
I will just say I would find it a little odd but wouldn't withdraw my child from school.
I can't help but feel that if another race/religion did the same thing they wouldn't come under fire. It's as if white British folk are trying to be so politically correct we no longer can see what is ok and what isn't incase we offend some one.
I feel political correctness has gone mad 😖
I'm now going to sit and wait for Mums net abuse to roll in.

@ArcheryAnnie I really can't understand why you think the actions of a few criminals/arseholes should be the deciding factor when considering the rights of thousands of people? Also, you suggested that my knowledge was out of date...I have a lot of trans/equal rights training every year because of my job. I suspect that you do not. Finally, I have not claimed that my pie is going to be any kind of solution to all the sexual violence in the world. It's in the oven now though, smells pretty good.

@VeryCunningStunt my point is that people's identities are made up of more than genetics. Do try to keep up, dear.

@StatisticallyChallenged I refer you to my previous post when I suggested that the important thing is that people can have CHOICE. If they want to live as a non-binary person, that's great. However, if they feel that they are a man or a woman, and think that their sex DOES "matter a flying fig" (a lot of trans people feel very strongly that they identify with one set of social/gender norms, whether you like it or not) then that is ok too. I don't believe in conditioning either, it is important to let people make their own choices.

Can posters be more clear when they are quoting others? And possibly say who? There's quite a tried and tested MN tradition of doing this.

It's all getting very confused.

I cannot respect anything I do not understand and I do not respect Parents dressing up their offspring like Barbie or Ken on different days. Poor kid must be really confused

"a lot of trans people feel very strongly that they identify with one set of social/gender norms, whether you like it or not"

Still doesn't change their sex, whether you like it or not.

Re the whole "understand and respect" thing

I can respect someone's right to believe something, without respecting the belief itself. I do not have to respect what another person believes, especially if that believe is nonsensical.

Are you happy to hear about a 14 year old boy, who now has a reduced size penis, breasts and non male bone structure? He spent two years thinking he was a girl and drugged up on hormones by someone who thinks like you Poliver.

What are your solutions for children that will be born in women's prisons once transwomen transfer?

I don't believe in conditioning either,

Which beg the question, how do people feel about gender neutral names, clothing, etc that some parents are doing. One parent decided not to reveal the sex of her baby to anyone.

Polliver, what do you mean by "sex" and "gender" as used in your last sentence? The poster whose quote you used was not talking about gender but about sex..People can identify with all the gender identities/stereotypes they like; what has that got to do with their sex (=biology)? I don't think I know a single person who confirms to one set of gender characteristics. Do you? Isn't everyone a glorious and diverse mixture?

Until someone can explain all this in a way that makes rational sense and doesn't deny basic biological fact, few people will understand it.

@NYConcreteJungle as it happens I don't think it is right to give anybody under the age of 18 testosterone/oestrogen to avoid situations like the ones you mention. It is obviously a big decision, which is why you should make it when you are an adult, and not before. However, that doesn't stop you from identifying the way that you choose/using your preferred pronouns.

There are not just physical, sexual and reproductive issues with this, there is psychological when the child matures and realised their childhood was lived as trans when they are actually autistic or gay not trans and now can't have children.

Today 15:23 Polliver

I suppose - taking the long view - we are only 50 years on from homosexuality becoming legal in the U.K. Perhaps it will take another 50 years before the sorts of dinosaur opinions on this thread finally die a death.

It doesn't surprise me that you have been on diversity training. Neither does it surprise me that your diversity training didn't mention the fact that the trans ideology is deliberately and purposefully erasing homosexuality.

The LGB community has spent several decades campaigning to be accepted as 'born this way'. A sexual orientation that doesn't harm anyone. A sexual orientation that doesn't rely on everyone pretending something that isn't true. A sexual orientation that does not deny biology and science.

A sexual orientation that the trans-ideology now says can be, and should be, unlearned. That lesbians and gay men need to re-educate themselves.

That they are transphobic and bigoted for not wanting to sleep with people of the opposite sex, purely on the basis of that person's feelings and self image.

There's a name for people who don't respect another person's refusal to have sex with them.

Did your diversity training mention that?

@MsMartini my point is that people should be able to identify with any or no gender, and that biological sex should not be the way of identifying/categorising a person if they do not want it to be. We should not insist that people are defined by their genetics, as it is old fashioned and intolerant. I'm sorry, I don't think I can make it any more simple than that.

I have a lot of trans/equal rights training every year because of my job. I suspect that you do not.

Polliver I'm a gender nonconforming person who has been involved in discussions within the LGBT+ community on this issue for, ooh, many, many decades. I am pretty sure that I have more exposure to this issue than you do, despite your job training. (And who is doing the training you have received? There's a lot of bullshit artists out there offering training on this who don't know what they are talking about.)

@Datun obviously LGB people are 'born this way'. Does that mean that trans people do not exist? Why does one group of people have to undermine the validity of another? I've tried to understand your point, but it just seems like plain old transphobia to me.

And just to be clear, "gender nonconforming" is a wider category than "trans". (Though I am pretty sure I'd have a much stronger claim to trans identity than many of the transactivists out there, if I didn't think it was such a colossal crock of shit.)

does it really matter that you do not understand that some people do not identify with their birth gender? the world is full of unexplained things. Do we need explanations for everything?
Should we condemn what we do not understand?
A lot of transgender children do commit suicide over feeling of rejection. Is it not enough to know this if you are a Christian or else to give them a chance to express themselves if that makes them happy? It does not harm anyone I can guarantee you and not your children. It teaches them to become more tolerant or open minded, or shall we say to love their brothers like the bible teaches. Who are you to judge? God?

"that people should be able to identify with any or no gender, and that biological sex should not be the way of identifying/categorising a person if they do not want it to be. We should not insist that people are defined by their genetics, as it is old fashioned and intolerant"

Polluter, can I ask who has provided your training? And can you link to some papers that back up that statement? Who is, in your opinion, the recognized authority?

Good Lord. Categorisation based on sex isn't old-fashioned! It's not a trend.

You can categorise people by their hair colour, if you like. It doesn't alter the fact that people can be categorised by sex.

We categorise people by sex because one half of the population make up 98% of violent sexual offenders. We categorise people by sex because one half of the population is much stronger and will beat them in sport. We categorise by sex because one half of the population will need different reproductive rights to the other half.

We call those two halves male and female, based on that criteria and that criteria alone.

You can separate people by gender identity, of course, for a reason I can't think of. What you can't do it suddenly rename them based on an entirely different categorisation.

What would be the point of separating people by their gender identity? Given that this is not sex categorisation, but gender categorisation. In real life, what's the point of separating them? How does that actually work?

@ArcheryAnnie Stonewall. All perfectly above board, I can assure you. The fact that you are gender non-conforming makes your pov even less understandable...surely you should be more aware than most how important it is not to tar groups of people with one brush? Why do you immediately think of the dick in the face person, rather than the young people all over the world who feel like they can not be their true selves because of fear of persecution and violence?

"We should not insist that people are defined by their genetics, as it is old fashioned and intolerant."

Is there a modern way to make babies?

Has anyone noted the difference on Wikipedia if you search man and woman? Man is all about chromosomes. They can't be edited either.

young people all over the world who feel like they can not be their true selves because of fear of persecution and violence?
Don't we all strive to be our true self?

I was involved in Stonewall when it first started, Polliver - I was a member of one of their committees. Like many other women, I've since parted ways from them over their stance on this issue that throws lesbians and bi women under the bus. For many of us, Stonewall no longer has any credibility on this.

Polliver

You've got it backwards. The trans-ideology is homophobic in the extreme.

The trans-ideology claims that a lesbian is transphobic for not sleeping with a man, including their penis, if that man claims they are female. And vice versa with gay men. Suddenly gay people are no longer allowed to be attracted to people of their own sex, lest they be called bigoted and transphobic.

Might I suggest, in all seriousness, that you compliment your diversity training with a bit more personal research, online. Lesbians are being persecuted relentlessly for not excepting 'girl dick'. Threatened with rape and all kinds of violence.

It's abhorrent. And it's everywhere.

You could start by googling Mich fest. The lesbian festival which has finally been shut down after 40 years because transactivists claimed it excluded men, attacked them and vandalised it. Forty bloody years.

@BertrandRussell so...I argue that we should be tolerant and accepting of each other, and not insist that trans people are "not really" men/women, and you think I need papers to back that up with? Is there an academic journal that writes about such basic, common courtesy facts of life? PS. I think I've got the measure of you if you need to resort to name calling