Political correctness gone mad - parents under fire from withdrawing their child from school after male class mate wears a dress.

[ThaiRedCurry]

Ok so just catching up with my mail online news before bed. I've seen a Christian couple have withdrawn their son from school due to his male, 6 year old class mate wearing a dress to school.
They where on This Morning and have come under fire from viewers and the presenters for their decision to remove their son from the school as they don't agree with a boy wearing a dress.
I will just say I would find it a little odd but wouldn't withdraw my child from school.
I can't help but feel that if another race/religion did the same thing they wouldn't come under fire. It's as if white British folk are trying to be so politically correct we no longer can see what is ok and what isn't incase we offend some one.
I feel political correctness has gone mad 😖
I'm now going to sit and wait for Mums net abuse to roll in.

misshelena I definitely think some kids are going to regret going through the transgender procedures. I have 6 children, have worked in various nurseries and been a child minder. It is perfectly normal for children to play with toys that are not necessarily considered suitable for their gender (ie typical girls/boys toys).

Children re-enact what they see. It is perfectly normal for little Harry to put on a dress and play make up and go play with the ironing set - just like mummy. It is also perfectly normal for little Harriet to don a builders hat and build a wall, and drive a dumper truck - just like daddy.

There are factors throughout our childhood that make us "prefer" to be the opposite sex or even "identify" as the opposite sex. Usually puberty sorts that out. I think it is when, following puberty, the teenager still considers him/herself to not be in the right body for gender should it be taken seriously. Until then let kids be kids..

Transgender and "gender neutral" seem to be the modern terms for tomboys ( I can't recall what a boy acting like a girl would have been called in my day tbh. Maybe gay?? We were all a bit ignorant in those days) and "unisex".

I can remember when our local swimming pool ditched the girls/boys changing rooms and they became "communal" or "unisex". Nothing has really changed except the wording.

However, I do feel that parents who see their child behaving in a manner considered more "normal" for the opposite sex have now been given permission to put pressure on schools to become "inclusive" (and to pander to the perfectly normal behaviour of their young child), which in turn, the school has to comply with, under PC laws. It all seems totally hysterical to me. That's my opinion anyway.

From a school of 1100 kids I attended at secondary level, I know 4 boys who came out as being gay. Two during their school years, and two when they left school. I have since heard of 1 being lesbian. None have had gender realignment.

I live in a small village which is connected to two other small villages. Everybody knows everybody else's business and there is FB page solely used for school pics and events from years ago. Everyone and their families keep in touch via social media and face to face meet ups and 3xyearly events.

Being honest how many people personally know someone who has undergone gender realignment? I am aware that people have, obviously, but they are not a normal occurance. The vast majority will have come out of puberty identifying as the gender they were born.

Nothing is ever going to convince me that a 6 year old little boy should be regarded as a candidate for gender realignment. 16 maybe....

Children re-enact what they see. It is perfectly normal for little Harry to put on a dress and play make up and go play with the ironing set - just like mummy. It is also perfectly normal for little Harriet to don a builders hat and build a wall, and drive a dumper truck - just like daddy.
Well that's one of the more horrifically sexist paragraphs I've read on MN. Is the implication that they'll safely revert to their own gender stereotypes by adulthood? Or perhaps it's Harry's dad he's copying and Harriet's mum she's copying. For sure any child ironing in this household ain't copying me.

misshelena there are an increasing number of detransitioners - people who have taken puberty blockers, hormones and had varying surgical procedures and then realised that they were happier as their biological sex and birth gender (or not any happier as the new sex/gender). There are a fair few videos on YouTube, some of which are very sad, especially the young women who have found that taking testosterone has some pretty permanent effects so they can never really be read as women any more. The trans community is often very unsupportive too, leaving them in a very difficult place.

Thank you Ipsie, Treacle, Purple and nooka for sharing. I feel like I really learned something... but now I don't know what to think. A few months ago, at a poetry slam DD2 was competing in, a 13yo trans girl read her poem. It really moved me, it was about her hatred of her breasts (like you Treacle). She seemed so sure that she is in the wrong body... it's disconcerting to think that, if she chooses to undertake realignment, that there's a possibility that she may come to regret it one day. It's even more upsetting to think that the trans community is not supportive of detransitioners.

What is your actual point? You disagree with them, but still think they shouldn't be criticised?

Someone's not familiar with Voltaire

It does throw up some interesting questions. Not sure that OP's the one to talk us through them.

I think the OP was trolling, but too many intelligent posters came to the thread.

my child wanted to be a wolf. For years.
I'd quite like to be a fairy.
You are what you biologically are.
Being assigned a sex is like being told what your blood group is.
It is what it is.
But it means very little in our house. We are more about the person rather than about their sex.

What year was their elder son who they removed again? Because a child in the same year had fender issues and that was their reason for removing him too then. Would you say the kid in the eldest sons class was too young to decide too?

The couple are acting like the lad just turned up in a dress one day and it was decided. This isn't how I know of these things to work. I'm sure the children in question have a team of medical professionals who feel this is the best way for both of them.

Is it right that every child in class, should be told that if child is wearing a dress he's to be referred to as a girl, and trousers, he's to be referred to as a boy? That seems ridiculous tbh. What about if girls wear trousers, should they be referred to as boys? And if not, how are six year olds in the class supposed to know and decide to avoid getting into trouble?

The parents may well be looking for media, I don't know. But they've just as much right to try and protect their child, as the dress wearing child's parents have to protect theirs.

t's disconcerting to think that, if she chooses to undertake realignment, that there's a possibility that she may come to regret it one day

And at the same time, she may also regret not undertaking it...

And that's disconcerting too.

It's a massive decision - and irreversible. But it should not be one undertaken lightly - especially HRT treatment at such a young age.

But people should be allowed to take it. Because not taking it when you need it can be just as bad as taking it when it's the wrong choice.

On the subject of detransitioners, there actually a more concerning situation that is likely to become more of an issue in the coming years, and that's what happens when dementia sets in. I am not doing the course so don't know the details but one of my colleagues is training in dementia support. In one of the early sessions they were given a case study of a transwoman who has developed dementia. She had had the full surgical realignment earlier in life. However, in the throes of dementia she is now even more confused by her body not being what she thinks it should be - because she has reverted mentally to a time when she had a male body and thinks she is a man. That was the sum total of the summary my colleague gave me so I know no more about it than that. But when you consider how much people can revert to their younger period mentally in dementia - like the Italian father of someone I know who lived in the UK for decades but as a result of his dementia can no longer speak English, only Italian - there's going to be a big problem in the future.

Do you think some transgender kids of today who decide to go through some gender reassigning procedures, are going to regret their decision later

Of course there are. And there are going to be some kids for whom it's the best thing they could have done.

But that begs the question - how do professionals, parents etc differentiate between the children who do have the 'wrong body' issue and the children who feel strongly that they want to play with what society has told them are girl's things?

I don't know. I do get concerned over people who dismiss the 'wrong body' issue - but I have no doubt there are plenty of children who seem convinced they are trans because they like 'girl things'. It's rare to see a trans child on the media who is not a 'walking stereotype'.

The child is a girl one day and a boy the next. Putting on a dress doesn't make you a girl nor does changing your name.

Many kids get through to late teens and realise they are perfectly happy with the sex they are born with. Marching them off to gender realignment clinics and trans therapy before they are sure what they want should be illegal.

This kid may well look back on this in 10 years and be very embarrassed and blame his parents for confusing him even more. Maybe by then it will be too late and he will be pumped full of female hormones as his parents interperated his natural childlike behaviour as him being trans from 6yrs old.

But they've just as much right to try and protect their child

Protect their child from what exactly?

But that begs the question - how do professionals, parents etc differentiate between the children who do have the 'wrong body' issue and the children who feel strongly that they want to play with what society has told them are girl's things?

Generally. It comes from having studied and worked in that particular field of expertise for years, decades even, rather than because some upstarts who felt uncomfortable said they don't agree with it because the Bible says so.

A few local school have preempted this by making school uniform trousers only for everyone.

JonSnowsWife, one news report I saw yesterday that mentioned the older child's age said 8, and that the parents had removed the child a couple of years ago. Don't know if that's accurate or not, but it does suggest a similar age group.

Protect their child from the idea being taught that wearing a dress miraculously gets rid of your penis and gives you a vagina but if you wear trousers the next day it reversed the process.
Protect them from the idea that you have to lie or be punished for it.
Protect them from the idea that if a boy likes to play with dolls then they must be a girl and need to be helped to change into a 'girl'.

Let kids be kids and let them decide when they are old enough to make an informed decision about something that will affect them for the rest of thier lives.

If my 10 year old was threatened with punishment for not going along with the lie that this is now a girl, I'd withdraw them too. Not Christian, don't care if boys come to parties in dresses.

I'm sure the children in question have a team of medical professionals who feel this is the best way for both of them.

Like Helen Webberley, a GP, who set up a private clinic in her living room, and diagnoses and prescribes over the internet? (Who is being investigated by the GMC and is now not allowed to treat transgender patients without supervision)

In 10-15 years there is going to be a tsunami of class action lawsuits raining down on these irresponsible, deluded fuckers who are pushing and supporting this ideology. I look forward to the Mermaids one in particular.

It's going to be an abuse scandal of epic proportions. Thousands of young people who have been sterilised and require life long drugs.

These poor children, they are being systematically thrown to the wolves by the people and organisations that should be protecting them, in the name of being progressive. It's utterly tragic

The stories I had seen yesterday reflected what willow is saying - that the children were expected to "gender" this child based on what they wore that day.

If that's true then it's batshit crazy and this sort of crap is just reinforcing the gender stereotypes that many people try to tell their children aren't important. I'm always telling my daughter that just be side she's a girl that doesn't mean she can't wear x, play with y, do z...and yet in many of the cases where children are supposedly trans it is based purely on these stereotypes.

I am aware there are children and adults with gender dysphoria which is a different issue ime-one which requires serious support and treatment. But in many cases there's no evidence of this - it's all about the performance of gender roles and the extent to which you conform to them.

Going back to the issue of safety in women's prisons, this is worth a read. www.independent.co.uk/voices/transgender-prisons-jessica-winfield-gender-recognition-act-a7940561.html

not all Christians are stupid, bigoted publicity seeking cunts

fucking twats they are, absolutely disgraceful behaviour

I object to them, and I am not "PC", I am just a normal human who would not dream, of going on TV to discuss what a 6 year old wears

I found this horrifying - also in the Mail yesterday:

"An Australian boy decided he wanted to become a girl after he was diagnosed with gender dysphoria at the age of 12.

But after two years taking his mother's oestrogen hormones, Patrick Mitchell had a change of heart.

'I started developing like a girl would - which was the thing I wanted at that time. But now that's no so helpful,' Patrick, now 14, told Channel Nine's 60 Minutes program.

'You have an image of what being a boy and being a girl is like, but when you actually experience it, it's very different.'

Patrick Mitchell decided he wanted to become a girl after he was diagnosed with gender dysphoria at the age of 12. Two years later, he had a change of heart

'I guess just realised that I could be happy without completely changing who I am,' Patrick said

Patrick grew his hair long and began developing breasts as a result of taking his mother's oestrogen medication

After growing his hair and developing breasts as a result of his treatment, Patrick looked his mother in the eye and said: 'I'm just not sure that I am a girl.'

'I guess I just realised that I could be happy without completely changing who I am,' he said.

Patrick had believed he was a girl trapped in a boy's body from a young age and became severely depressed when he reached puberty.

'I would get out of the shower and walk past the mirror and I wouldn't look at myself because it just upset me,' he said.

'I would just wonder if I really needed to be alive.'

His mother, Alison, made the decision to give him puberty blockers before she allowed him to take her own oestrogen hormones when he was 13 years old.

Under Australian law, teenagers must wait until the age of 16 and need court approval before they can begin hormone replacement therapy.

'Our motivation for second stage [oestrogen] treatment was that Patrick was growing very tall and very broad,' she told the program.

'One thing that oestrogen will do is halt bone growth to more of girl pattern of growth.
'We were wanting to fuse his bone growth so that we could reduce his height a little bit and also soften his features.'

Senior paediatrician Professor John Whitehall said he held grave concerns about giving oestrogen to transgender teenagers.

'There is no proof that this is going to work. You think their emotional problems are going to get better by giving them oestrogen - fine,' he told the program.
'That's called optimism. It's not called scientific method. The whole thing is experimental in that sense.'
Now Patrick is sure he is male, his mother said doctors were wrong to 'pigeonhole him so quickly' when he was diagnosed with gender dysphoria.
Some of the affects of oestrogen hormones are permanent, and Patrick will need surgery to reduce the breasts he developed while taking the treatment.

'I think it's probably the final step in getting me back to being normal,' he said.
'I guess I look forward to not having to wear baggy clothes and being able to go swimming and playing sports.' "

If the hormones he has taken have affected penile development, he may never have an adult penis, despite his desire now to be male. His bone structure and physique are presumably permanently affected.