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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

When did any view expressed make you 'genuine' and not bigoted

259 replies

Brokenme · 07/09/2017 21:13

I'm really struggling to get my head around people saying Jacob Rees-Moggs views are ok because he is being 'genuine' and expressing himself. Where do we draw the line? Is it ok for politicians to be racist as long as they are 'genuinely' expressing their views. AIBU to be completely appalled by this stand point?

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Original poster
Brokenme · 07/09/2017 22:16

cake my OP wasn't about his views but about the response of others that his view gave him a levelu of virtue by expressing it. As I've said before where is that line?

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FenceSitter01 · 07/09/2017 22:16

But he isn't policing - he's having an opinion - my like my gay friends who do not tie themselves to railings and picket churches when there is a pink wedding.

NullaG · 07/09/2017 22:16

I have no problem with him expressing the views he has so far. I would much prefer to know.

SmileEachDay · 07/09/2017 22:17

He didn't break any laws on hate speech, he's entitled to express his views.

Yep. Despite women being the most discriminated against (particularly if you count murder as being in the extreme end of the discrimination scale..) groups, we are t covered by hate speak on account of not being a minority.

You can say what you like about women.

Original poster
Brokenme · 07/09/2017 22:18

glitter exactly - good article. Nulla but a lot of people are not being horrified by it they are saying we would vote for him (even if we don't agree with him) because he is 'geniune'

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FenceSitter01 · 07/09/2017 22:19

But in answer to the OP - by putting your views on the table you are not going to be open to the ridiculous witch hunting the media delighted in with Tim Farron. Your beliefs are your own.

BoysofMelody · 07/09/2017 22:19

Both have conviction and are committed to their options which they have arrived at due to their own be ifs and rational.*

It is the definition of irrationality if you base your beliefs on a 2000 year old book of fairy stories.

Plus he is pontificating on a situation he will never be faced with, being pregnant after a rape. IIT is quite easy to be secure in that conviction when you will never be in that position.

SmileEachDay · 07/09/2017 22:19

But he isn't policing he is in a position of power. He's giving backing and credence to an awful, misogynistic view.

And people are congratulating him for being genuine.

It's policing, alright.

AnneElliott · 07/09/2017 22:20

He was asked for his personal views and he gave them. What would you have him do? Lie about it or refuse to answer? He would still hold the same views wouldn't he?

And I am very pro choice.

FenceSitter01 · 07/09/2017 22:21

I wouldn't not vote for him on account of these views, because he has no power to change things, nor the inclination to change things, therefore his personal beliefs are largely irrelevant.

birdsdestiny · 07/09/2017 22:22

Fence sitter I think you can pick and choose with regard to religion people do it all the time. The priest in our local Catholic church frequently talks about about the fact that he disagrees about the catholic teachings on gay marriage.

Original poster
Brokenme · 07/09/2017 22:22

fence Yet...

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FenceSitter01 · 07/09/2017 22:23

It is the definition of irrationality if you base your beliefs on a 2000 year old book of fairy stories.

There you go - you are telling us YOUR belief is of more importance than someone elses. You're also being deliberately provocative about religion. It's an utter lack of respect to any one of any faith system.

Original poster
Brokenme · 07/09/2017 22:24

anne it's not his views... it's the response of others to them...

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FenceSitter01 · 07/09/2017 22:25

Some people might pick and choose, some might not. Same as some might toddle run off and open their own interpretation under a church banner

GardenGeek · 07/09/2017 22:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BoysofMelody · 07/09/2017 22:30

There you go - you are telling us YOUR belief is of more importance than someone elses.,

Well yes of course I think it is more important than someone else's as I think I'm right and he's wrong. Not all ideas and opinions are equally valid.

Carolinesbeanies · 07/09/2017 22:32

What is wrong with people these days. Hes absolutely entitled to hold an opinion. You guys are frothing at the mouth defending your opinion. Youre entitled to yours just as hes entitled to his. But this rabid desire to shut down opposing views is staggering. No wonder the accusation of snowflake, and entitlement, is so prevalent today. Its truly toddler tantrum footstamping screaming YOU MUST AGREE WITH ME!

No we must'nt. Get over yourselves, and when you do, learn a little respect because that clearly is a concept utterly lost in 2017.

SmileEachDay · 07/09/2017 22:34

"I think it's morally indefensible for POC people to be Rastafarians, there's never a justification" = racist shite, no one would be saying it was ok for him to say it.

"I think it's morally indefensible for a rape victim to have an abortion, there's never a justification" = misogynistic shite but it's totes ok and genuine.

Original poster
Brokenme · 07/09/2017 22:37

garden I have said multiple times it's NOT about his right to say it. It's people saying it's better he said it because that makes him 'genuine' even if they disagree with him. So people can think he's bigoted/misogynistic (by their own view point) but still want him as an MP because a genuine bigot is better than spin. That makes me despair

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NataliaOsipova · 07/09/2017 22:40

But this rabid desire to shut down opposing views is staggering.

And is, ironically, the very essence of bigotry...

He is entitled to his views and to express them. I am resolutely pro choice and therefore do not agree with him. This is the essence of a democracy. If, like me, you do not agree with those views then you can choose not to vote for him or others who share them.

Funnily enough, I have some sympathy for the "genuine" comments. In a world of spin and saying anything for votes whether it is true or not, I have some respect for someone who is prepared to be honest when he knows it will be unpopular and therefore politically perilous. Because that honesty means that we can, as a country, have a serious and meaningful debate about these issues.

Ttbb · 07/09/2017 22:40

I think that it's more of a momentary daze from the fact that a politician, and a tory no less, is actually being honest despite the fact that his views are deeply unpopular. Devil you know and all that.

Original poster
Brokenme · 07/09/2017 22:42

caroline Pleade read the thread. He can have his opinion but people are defending him as 'geniune' when they are saying they DON'T agree with him. It makes no sense. And the use of snowflake weakens what you say, in my humble opinion.

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birdsdestiny · 07/09/2017 22:42

Perhaps it's linked to the narrative about all politicians being liars. Really damaging in my view. Dh is a parish councillor, he sits through endless enthralling meetings on parking, etc. There will be thousands like him.

Original poster
Brokenme · 07/09/2017 22:46

natalia your view point is exactly my issue. We are moving more and more away from a tolerant society and people can shout snowflake all they like. Freedom of speech is of course accepted but we also have to defend the rights of the minorities and JRM is a billionaire with antiquated views getting 'ordinary' people to agree with him when in fact he is nothing like them. We've seen this story before and it ended in Trump becoming POTUS.

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