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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think we no longer live in a Christian country

926 replies

orlantina · 04/09/2017 21:41

More than 53% of people have no faith - according to a recent survey.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41150792

That figure changes to 71% amongst 18-25 yr olds.

It surveyed 3000 adults - so it would be interesting to look behind the stats but it seems that more than half the country have no religion.

Christianity is still probably the most common religion out there.

Should this have implications for areas of national life?

OP posts:

Thread gallery

Original poster

orlantina · 05/09/2017 22:04

derxa

Family tragedies are hard. I have had one as well - and if I was religious, I would be asking why God decided to take away my mum so early.

Some people find comfort in faith when tragedy strikes.
Some people no doubt ask why a benelovent God would allow such a tragedy to happen.

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SchadenfreudePersonified · 05/09/2017 22:14

What is a hassock and where do I get one so I can join in?

Not as exciting s it sounds, Fresh - it's a hard, rectangular cushion that is knelt on during prayer.

You can get one in church

coconuttella · 05/09/2017 22:16

Do you think we should have a State religion and an established Church?

No, it's an anachronism.

TooManyPaws · 05/09/2017 22:18

I do find it strange that apparently disestablishment of the C of E will bring down plagues and torments upon the UK when only one out of four nations in the UK actually has an established church. Despite this, the Scottish government (even if they do go for more multi-faith official prayer) does seem kinder than the bunch of hypocrites in power at Westminster.

Original poster

orlantina · 05/09/2017 22:25

I do wonder what the reaction would be if schools were no longer required to have an act of collective daily worship?

Would there be outrage? What would the Daily Mail think? What would the Church think? Would there be letters to the Times? (I suspect there would be a thread on AIBU).

Slowly, slowly things will change.

OP posts:

TheFallenMadonna · 05/09/2017 22:28

I have never taught in a secondary school that had a daily act of worship. It was a surprise when my children started primary school.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 05/09/2017 22:31

Christopher Hitchens was a bit odd

He was a total pisshead. A charming, intelligent and articulate pisshead, but a pisshad all the same.

Though that had nothing to do with him being an atheist, and being an atheist had nothing to do with him being a pisshead.

I didn't agree with his faith comments, but I have to admit that I always thought he'd be a great bloke to have at a party.

Original poster

orlantina · 05/09/2017 22:32

Then the Bishops in the House of Lords....should all Bishops have a right to sit in there? Why not other faith leaders?

Surely if the House of Lords is to benefit from the wisdom of faith leaders, it should be done fairly - a couple of each faith?

And then..the Monarch. Charles wants to be Defender of Faith. Not just the Church of England.

But if William gets to be King, he'll find more and people will not have faith so the idea of God annointing him as King and the Coronation will look pretty outdated.

OP posts:

coconuttella · 05/09/2017 22:33

I think people sometimes hedge their bets because no one likes to believe they will eventually die.

I think it's more that there's genuine sense of mystery leading people to think there's more to our existence than being a meaningless bunch of random atoms in an unremarkable part of the universe .... Whereas religion can provide a framework for making sense of that, its legacy of superstition and pre-scientific dogma means it struggles to be credible in a modern world. On the other side, atheism is in itself empty, and the strident gospel of meaninglessness preached by many of its champions isn't very appealing.... so many exist somewhere in the middle, in a fog of agnosticism.

Blossomdeary · 05/09/2017 22:33

More people may not be believers, but sadly that does not reduce the stranglehold that religion has on our education system. Time to end state-supported faith schools.

Original poster

orlantina · 05/09/2017 22:39

I think it's more that there's genuine sense of mystery leading people to think there's more to our existence than being a meaningless bunch of random atoms in an unremarkable part of the universe

We are stardust...

We have one life, make the most of it. Treat others as you would want to be treated. Be the best you can.

OP posts:

Slightlyperturbedowlagain · 05/09/2017 22:46

think there's more to our existence than being a meaningless bunch of random atoms in an unremarkable part of the universe ....
Funny because that's exactly what I do believe- our atoms do actually 'live on' as they are constantly recycled. And of course we live on in the minds of those who love us. Those things are quite comforting to me and don't leave me with a 'vacuum of meaningless'

Original poster

orlantina · 05/09/2017 22:52

think it's more that there's genuine sense of mystery leading people to think there's more to our existence than being a meaningless bunch of random atoms in an unremarkable part of the universe

I feel the need for Monty Python..

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coconuttella · 05/09/2017 23:03

Then the Bishops in the House of Lords....should all Bishops have a right to sit in there? Why not other faith leaders?

I thought the Chief Rabbi did... Also not all Bishops sit.... the number of sitting bishops has been reduced. I don't mind religious leaders being in the Lords to represent faith communities but it should be across faiths and not give special treatment to the CofE.

Original poster

orlantina · 05/09/2017 23:08

I don't mind religious leaders being in the Lords to represent faith communities

If faith communities have representatives in there, maybe other communities should have leaders in there to represent their communities and their specific needs?

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coconuttella · 05/09/2017 23:18

If faith communities have representatives in there, maybe other communities should have leaders in there to represent their communities and their specific needs?

Absolutely. If faiths are represented the NSS etc should be there too.

Original poster

orlantina · 06/09/2017 06:59

Absolutely. If faiths are represented the NSS etc should be there too

What about people representing the gay community?
The black community?
The trans community?
The community of people who don't believe in having a Monarchy?

IF faith leaders are there to specifically represent people who believe in God, then surely there should be people in there who specifically represent people who represent other communities?

OP posts:

coconuttella · 06/09/2017 07:06

Yes, if we are to have a House of Lords then it should have a full range of community leaders as you suggest.

Original poster

orlantina · 06/09/2017 07:09

Yes, if we are to have a House of Lords then it should have a full range of community leaders as you suggest

Maybe an MN representative as well

OP posts:

BitOutOfPractice · 06/09/2017 07:31

I wonder what the the correlation is between disestablishmentists (is that the word?) and republicans? I am both as it happens.

Iwanttobe8stoneagain · 06/09/2017 07:36

It didn't take long for someone to start making derogatory comments about people of faith did it? If you make the same level of derogatory comments about Gender on here you would be shot down in flames. People should be allowed to believe what they like without pathetic little comments about imaginary friends and sky fairies which immediately identifies the poster of 1. Having no original thoughts, 2. Having no respect for others and 3 having the debating skills of a snail. But most of this countries traditions are firmly entwined with Christianity, yes we might widen out these to e.g. Include a head of another religion standing on the alter of Westminster abbey etc, but Church and state will remain entwined for a long time to come. I can never really understand if you don't believe in anything what difference it actually makes. Strangely people of other faiths rarely seem to have a problem with it (apart from say Isis and IRA terrorists)

drbeverlyhofstadter · 06/09/2017 08:00

Ha ha yes the main focus of the Ira's campaign was to make people be catholic 😂 i needed a laugh this morning

heartstornastray · 06/09/2017 08:12

Why should there be anyone specifically representing certain groups of people. If we want true integration we shouldn't be distinguishing certain groups thereby setting them apart. People should be judged on merit alone regardless of faith, colour or gender. We are all equal human beings. It should be irrelevant what faith, colour or gender we are.

juneau · 06/09/2017 08:46

I do wonder what the reaction would be if schools were no longer required to have an act of collective daily worship?

Well I'm guessing that the 53% who have no faith would be delighted! I go along with CofE stuff, because I accept that it's our state religion. However, I wish we didn't have a state religion at all. I like the French idea of a complete separation of church and state. I don't mind if others wish to go to church and believe in whatever they like, but I resent that as a secularist I am required to go along with it and say nothing. I don't want my kids being brain washed into believing in Jesus and that an old bloke with a beard sits on a fucking cloud deciding what happens to everyone on earth. It enrages me actually!

BeyondLimitsAndWhatever · 06/09/2017 08:52

@Fresh re "have told my loved ones to not waste a penny on me once I am dead. Hopefully all my bits will be given to donors and to science so there is nothing left to bury"

Afaik, if you want to donate your body to science, you need to arrange it before you die :)

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