To wish the drive drive laws were clearer

[Kindoline]

Or just do away with them and have a zero limit?

Reading the Kirsty Gallagher articles. She was still three times over the limit 7hrs after she stopped drinking. How can anyone really know when they are ok to drive the next day? I always struggle to work out if I'm ok to pick my car up the next afternoon or not. Trying to do unit/hours maths whilst hungover isn't easy either. Plus everyone's metabolic rate is different. So presumably a big fella who is use to drinking heavily may not be over the limit whereas a slight woman would be.

It's all as clear as mud

I don't need to read it again. Not drinking on Sunday because you need to drive Monday means you were tee total Sunday.
You said it yourself. Doesn't mean you're teetotal forever

If id had one or two glasses of wine or equivalent, id probably be fine to drive next day. If i had a hangover or felt fuzzy I wouldnt. If id actually got pissed, no way would i drive the next day. Its about how safe you are and yiur reaction times more than whether youd pass a breathaliser

You can do what you like gorgo, no one has to drink in any circumstances but it doesn't make you morally superior to someone who has a glass of red wine with their dinner and then drives to work.

The next day....

no one has to drink in any circumstances but it doesn't make you morally superior to someone who has a glass of red wine with their dinner and then drives to work.

I didnt say it did. I said KG was a twat. She had far more than glass of wine at dinner.

I also said plenty of people choose not to drink if they know they will be driving the next day. Since some people think its an impossibility. Its not.

I dont think it makes me any better than anyone. But some people seem really defensive about their drinking and their choice to drink

Why brasty? I wouldn't want someone's death or lifelong disability on my conscience. Both my parents drive, neither have ever driven within 24 hours of drinking. I have never done so.

I do have a relative with a lifelong disability and shorter lifespan and a friend who lost her unborn child to drink drivers though.

Whatever the law says any DECENT person doesn't drink and drive.

Frankly having read of the case I think she should have been banned for life and had a custodial sentence.

She was OVER 3 TIMES over the limit she knew she was pissed!

She was driving erratically so clearly a danger to all road users.

Was planning to drive HER CHILDREN.

I also don't buy that someone that much over the limit 'doesn't often drink'

Fwiw so should bloody Rooney! Lose licence and custodial sentence.

BOTH have more than enough money for taxis or even private bloody chauffeur in Rooneys case.

About time we cracked down on such selfish pricks!

Autofill here in Scotland the zero tolerance and public safety ads HAVE led to not only a reduction in people caught but in accidents and deaths/injuries.

"And it brings out the MN weird attitudes to alcohol 'If you have 2 glasses of wine you may be over the limit the next morning'. Well yeah maybe if you drank them at 3am. If you have with your dinner at 7pm you won't."

The thing is, you might be depending on the size of glass and when you finish the last one and when you're driving...

2 large restaurant measures and you finish at half 8, you should be fine.

2 full actual glasses on the other hand, stop at half 9 and you could well still be over the limit at 8 the next morning.

I've done stuff on alcohol awareness that involved looking at the difference between standard measures and pretty normal sized wine glasses people use at home (as in not over sized ones) wine glasses hold more like 400ml not 250ml so getting close to 6 units per glass.

There's some great willful misunderstanding on the thread.

It's pretty simple. If anyone is drinking enough so there's any uncertainty that they'll be under the limit the following day, then they should skip driving. Or next time round moderate their drinking.

400ml is more than half a bottle. 2 glasses would be more than a bottle. Most people really aren't that thick.

My home wine glasses are 125.

I filled one of my large wine glasses to the level that I might have and poured it into a jug to check how much it was and it was about 350mls. I do get 2 and a bit glasses out of a bottle of wine. The one I have in the fridge has 9 units so if I finished drinking at midnight I should be ok to drive sometime after 9am but would allow a few hours leeway on top of that

Graphista at the moment there is no meaningful evidence that the Scotland zero tolerance laws have led to safer roads.

So demented your 'having a couple of glasses of wine' has a slightly different meaning to mine.

It's telling she was spotted driving erratically - seems to me she was drinking quite close to when she drove or was so hammered she was still drunk.

There's a website called Morning After Calculator. It estimates that a 13% bottle of wine takes 11 hours to get out of your system. Obviously people metabolise alcohol differently but it's a rough guide. I have to be quite aware of this as I have to drive the dcs to early morning activities on Saturdays and Sundays. I was horrified when I realised how long it takes to rid your body of the alcohol. I reckon Gallagher must have had a bucketful and stopped quite late (or early in the morning)

Regarding dropping the limit, the statistics which aren't readily available are those for drivers who blow a level between the Scottish and English limits. Most people caught over the English limit are comfortably over, so they'd already be over the Scottish limit.

If on the other hand people are driving erratically or dangerously enough to be breath tested, but blow below the current limit, that would be evidence in support of dropping the limit.

DH drives when he has had a drink - eg last weekend at a BBQ he had one pint of normal strength lager with a lot of food and several soft drinks. I don't really like it (and don't drink so can always drive) but he doesn't appear in any way impaired, certainly compared to the difference whingy children or heavy traffic make to one's driving.

I think "if you can't do the sums, you're not going to be safe to drive" is a very good rule of thumb. A heavy session - by which I mean enough to cause a hangover - should always rule out next-day driving.

But I think when we are talking about zero limits we risk demonising alcohol as the only factor affecting driving. The only person I knew who died in a car accident appears to have been changing the music and therefore taking her eyes off the road for a few moments. Do we all save our radio tuning for when we're stationary? Probably not, even if we reduce it by having media controls on our steering wheels. Do we use sat nav? Do we take noisy children in the car?

"400ml is more than half a bottle. 2 glasses would be more than a bottle. Most people really aren't that thick."

You'd be surprised, honestly... most people had no clue what their glasses held or how much they consume as soon as you pointed out how much was in each size glass.

Also it's difficult for people to accept, but blowing over the limit doesn't mean those drivers would've been a danger. Of course drink driving makes it more likely you'll have an accident but it's the unfortunate truth that the vast majority of drunk drivers reach their destination without incident

So more arrests doesn't equal the road being safer

Define 'meaningful evidence' I'd have thought the reduction by even ONE of deaths due to drink drivers is pretty meaningful to those who've lost loved ones to such selfish dicks!

It's not about arrests its about reducing the amount of people killed or injured surely?

Personally I think radios, being on phone (even hands free) should be banned too.

YY MrsHathaway

If people are crashing their cars after a couple of glasses of wine 12+ hours earlier it is highly likely that the alcohol consumption is irrelevant and the collision was caused by other factors such as speeding, mechanical defects, inattention, mobile phone use etc etc.

A few glasses of wine and some shots every once in a while does NOT equal a drinking problem. MN is like a parallel universe sometimes

You could have two white shots and be ok.
You could have one large wine and be over.
It really does depend on height,weight,food consumption etc.

But by weeing/eating etc does not flush it out any quicker (well by around 1%)

The only way to get the units out your system is time.

You can drink the same as two other people they may not be over,but you could be.

Queen, yes that's why I stopped replying! Drinking problem....is love to see that conversation with the GP.

I'm here about my drinking problem

Ok kindoline what's been happening

Well last week I went out and had two glasses of wine with dinner, then went dancing and had 3 jack Daniels and coke and two shots of tequila

Ok and how often do you drink like that?

Well maybe twice a year

And often do you consume alcohol?

Maybe a glass every two weeks or so

Right you are, I'll just write a referral for rehab 🙄

I haven't read all the posts, but I used to breathalyse my children in the morning if they were driving. Where I live the police are out to catch morning after drinkers and school run mums who think they can lunch time drink and drive.

A childminder colleague refused to let the children go home with a parent as they had been drinking, but in the end she did, and called the police the moment they left, she was well over the limit. Not only putting her own children in danger but other road users and pedestrians too, she dederbvxd what she got.