AIBU to think my son's name isn't that hard to pronounce?

[SailorByTheSea]

Or is this an acceptable pronunciation!?

We live in London, so 'fear' is 1 syllable (this is relevant!)

My son is called Theodore... You know, 3 syllables, 'The-uh-door'?

All he gets is 'fear-door' please tell me that this isn't an acceptable pronunciation? It makes me regret his name massively

The whole thread is hilarious or tragic, depending on your point of view - several people have pointed out that regional variations in pronunciation is not the same as incorrect pronunciations, that there is an internal order, grammar, system to the variations etc etc.

It's an interesting insight into class prejudice that probably wouldn't be discussed directly, I think. When people say something is 'correct' pronunciation is basically code for 'how the posh (but not too posh) people talk'.

It's struck me that each use of 'lazy/thick/uneducated' on this thread is basically a placeholder for 'common' in the sense my horrific snob grandmother would have used it.

It's interesting, now that 'common' isn't really acceptable, the words that are chosen to replace it.

It's interesting, now that 'common' isn't really acceptable, the words that are chosen to replace it.

Agreed. Not being British/English the class system isn't as obvious to me, but some threads really do highlight how pervasive it still is in the UK. Like whether front gardens are for sitting in, for example. ;)

Does the queen speak "correct" English? Her pronunciation has changed too over the years. Is it still correct anymore?

www.english.com/blog/queens-english

After all, it's apparently slipping towards Estuary English.

IMO no-one has spoken English correctly since Shakespeare

It's an interesting insight into class prejudice that probably wouldn't be discussed directly, I think. When people say something is 'correct' pronunciation is basically code for 'how the posh (but not too posh) people talk'.

It's struck me that each use of 'lazy/thick/uneducated' on this thread is basically a placeholder for 'common' in the sense my horrific snob grandmother would have used it.

I think you could say the same for an awful lot of Mn threads -- about 90% of the baby names forum is essentially either 'Is this name chavvy?' (another of the replacement terms for 'common') or 'Is this try-hard'? (ie. does this sound too posh/socially aspirational? Can I call a child Cressida if I live in a three-bed semi?) and all those perennial threads about toilet brushes and cleaners and what constitutes a 'good income' and private vs state schools, and how often you clean your loo/change your bedclothes/pyjamas/take a shower or whether you eat at a table or on your lap, or sit in your front garden, and what you call meals, and whether you say 'What?' or 'Pardon?' if you mishear etc etc. are all about class, explicitly or implicitly.

Even the lengthy Princess Diana thread morphed into a thread about whether it was only the WC who wailed on the streets, while the MC happily went about their usual affairs.

I'm not British either, and I find it fascinating how class is still all-pervasive while so many on here claim otherwise.

I'm not British either, and I find it fascinating how class is still all-pervasive while so many on here claim otherwise.

Neither am I! You're right, it's fascinating - particularly recognising that I'm unconsciously taking part in it as my accent is quite local these days.

To be fair the class system also exists in my own country but not to the same degree.

My MIL is married to someone from the Welsh Valleys and he says 'Thee- orrr'... Gah! What is WRONG with people?! ;-

I bet he doesn't. (Rhotic R? Really??)

I bet he says "Thee-oh", in a Welsh accent. How would he say "trio"?

Our society is so entrenched in what class we are

And yes accents are for many a way of telling what class you are probably from not what you are now and isn't that your class ?

And yes people are judged by this we just like to think we have moved forward im not sure we have so much

These threads always get me wondering whether those who don't 'gets' that words sound different in other accents have ever watched TV. I grew up mimicking other accents both from TV and from people I knew IRL and was well aware from an early age that there are regional variations - I've never for a moment considered any one to be 'incorrect' (and I grew up in the south speaking, as some of you would have it, 'properly'). Do some people just live in bubbles?!

I also think on the pronunciation of names front there are a couple of different issues being discussed. The Jane or Helen examples are names that are rarely pronounced differently except for regional variations in accent, whereas for example I've know a Megan (meg-ann) and a Megan (mee-gun) where the basic pronunciation (regional variances aside) was very different to the point of them being different names altogether. Other examples might be Sarah (sair-uh) vs Sara (sah-rah), where on a basic level the person or their parents decided on a very specific pronunciation which would still be evident even if being said in a different accent. Maybe the vowels would sound slightly different, a shortened second syllable for instance. Whereas someone saying Helen and missing the H because that's how they speak isn't changing the actual name unless they were, as other have said, saying Helena or, I don't know, Helene (clutching at straws here).

That's just my opinion though, I'm impressed by the amount of knowledge on display here from some posters. Less by the snobbiness though.

I'm just going to stick my oar in here a say that in Australia RP is taught to school children as correct English. We certainly were not allowed to get away with saying f instead of th. Let's put it this way. If you can say something and have a forgeiner who is fluent in English understand it then you are speaking properly. Cockney does not satisfy that criterion.

RP may be taught as correct English in Australia but I've never heard an Australian speak RP.

Unfortunately none of you know the IPA
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet

Australians are taught to not sound like Australians?

I'm married to an Australian, The thought of an Australian speaking RP is quite a laugh!
The F/th thing is nothing to do with cockney, cockney is a type of slang

Maryz, I don't think it's about correct or wrong, it's just how we speak. I know th makes a different sound but it's very difficult for me to do it in normal speech.

Thinking about it, Ttbb - you're probably right.

I'm a Kiwi, and we're also taught the RP away of saying words - it just comes out sounding different, because our accent comes in to play.

Kids are 'taught out' of saying things like 'f' instead of 'th' (and it certainly takes some children longer - by adulthood though, no-one except someone with a speech impediment would pronounce it 'f'), etc. There are no glottal stops, or 'we was', 'I seen', etc.

Ostensibly, we're taught to speak the Queen's English. For example, the 'a' in dance, bath, grass and Frances is a long one. However, if you hear a Kiwi speak, you'll know we don't sound (generic/southern) 'English' when we say those words. There's much more of an 'aaaahh' sound when we say them.

It's a long A, but it's said in a Kiwi accent.

On the other hand, many Australians use a short A in words like dance, but maybe a longer A in, say, last. But again, it's a distinctive Aussie accent.

Oh, and Cockney is an accent...? Cockney rhyming slang is slang. Right....?!

That surprises me, my daughter is 12 & would certainly be corrected for "I was sat" by her English teacher. I don't think London accents are protected in the same way as some of the others!

Kids in London are taught it, we know f & th are different!

It's exactly the same as 33 with an Irish accent / people that say tirty tree say it without thinking because it's what comes naturally

But RP is an accent of English spoken in the UK. So teachers in Australia and NZ are not teaching RP if they are teaching pronunciation in their own accents.

Schools discourage incorrect grammar used in the name of "regional" accents

But grammar and accent aren't the same thing.

sorry yabu. Theodore and feardoor sound the same! you will get used to it xxx

Sorry, but yeah. I can see where this statement came from. Theo - dore and Fear Door totally depends on accent.

The Helen/Ellen thing is just an accident - it's a coincidence that Helen without the H sound is another name altogether.

Henrietta/ 'enrietta is a better example of everyone knowing exactly who is being mentioned.