To be fed up of Instamums 2

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Continued from original post...

AKA The Edited

Both Erica and TheFrugality have got it right though with being transparent in terms of ads/spon/freebies - I do think though this perhaps has to do with the fact they both work in or have worked in the fashion industry and take this type of thing seriously.

Both Erica and TheFrugality have got it right though with being transparent in terms of ads/spon/freebies - I do think though this perhaps has to do with the fact they both work in or have worked in the fashion industry and take this type of thing seriously.

Agree, but I've seen another ex magazine editor get all upset about declaring sponsorship as she doesn't think she should have to declare how she gets compensated for her work.

One thing we are all agreed on is that the media is changing. Nuts, Zoo, FHM, Company, The Independent print, Boating Weekly... they've all gone down the pan with many more to follow. That media ad spend has to go somewhere and currently that somewhere is Instagram. The brands decided not any of us. The ASA is on it but hasn't moved quickly enough, which has caused understandable frustrations. Opinion is everything and absolutely shouldn't be shut down here or anywhere else. That's why this thread is so relevant. But regardless of the Farrow & Ball (used to write copy for Dulux and it is longer lasting) or whatever is on the walls, people behind the forums/ Instagram pixels are likely to be dealing with some form of shit. PND/ miscarriage/ anxiety/ constipation (Poo Pukka finally lands) are things mums all deal with so on both 'sides' (which is rubbish in itself) nastiness can have an effect. There's no need to 'be kind, always' and all sisterly if that's not your bag but aware I suppose. I've messed up and had people rightly put me in my place because you are right, there is a vague responsibility online not to make people feel shit. To answer the child privacy bit, I'm worried. I don't know what's going to happen and it's definitely added to the mum guilt pile. But as I said, personally, doing this is the 'slightly less shit' option right now. I'll be back in 10 years when I'm being sued. Right, I'm off. I know some folk wanted me off sooner but I hope you understand when your personal life is being discussed publicly, it's fair enough to wade in. Hi to my old Mumsnet colleagues... off to follow all the drag queens.

I m so disappointed in frugality. I followed her for a long time and liked her.
I hadn't followed Susie verill but her rant was vile, if her kid was 9 and able to understand I m sure she would
Have moderated it a bit better or not while Holding her beautiful little newborn. It was disgusting. Not real. Just a really bad call.

Several posters are reiterating - and it s being royally ignored, the main point of frustration with instagrammers is the lack of transparency. Whomever said that the instagrammers response to this will
Be pivotal to their standing was likely true.
I really liked MOD and FOD, as in DMB40, mother pukka the MOd were my first hits when I opened Instagram. I d be delighted to see them having lots of freebies, as long as they still honestly report how it works (and I love how DMB will tell it like it is !) and tell us about their relationship with the supplier if there is one. That is all.
And mother pukka is still fecking awesome :) so is MN. It s descending to virtua hair pulling now though....

Wonder if MOD/FOD read the comments about whether he works, having just seen his 'taken the girls into work' instastories..?

Of course they did ASauvingnon - I was trying to work out what office it was though - whether it was his PRs office or whether he still has a day job? Maybe he's been on sabbatical, but it's weird if he's off again in a week for another holiday. Then again, maybe he just has great perks in his job like eight weeks + holiday.

I'm late to this discussion, although have been following.

The transparency argument is an interesting one. In the eyes of brands, high profile bloggers and instagrammers have to a certain extent taken the place of previously coveted editorial space in newspaper supplements and glossy magazines.

Previously, Martinhal resorts or Bedruthan hotel would have courted travel journos at the Sunday supplements and lifestyle mags but are now equally (if not more) likely to offer freebie trips to bloggers and instagrammers than travel writers on the understanding there might be a favourable write up as a result.

This is still editorial, not advertising, IMO, so the #ad or #spon doesn't apply.

The only difference is that each blogger/instagrammer is making their own rules for editorial integrity whereas travel writers would have a policy to adhere to, dictated by their editor.

We (bloggers / instagrammers / followers / publics) are all figuring it out as we go along, and deciding what we like/don't like. There will be differences, of course.

The exposure of children on social media is a different discussion altogether. Personally, I'm becoming more cautious as my children get older. My eldest (8) definitely has an opinion over what she is comfortable with on fb and insta. It's very limited, and I respect that.

My youngest, who inspired me to start blogging, is severely disabled and unable to tell me his opinion. So I'm figuring it out along the way, raising awareness and campaigning to improve his and others' future, while aiming to protect his privacy as appropriately as I can.

MotherPukka thank you for wading in. And for your thoughts. It's very appreciated.

You say it's fair enough to wade in ( And of course it is! ) when your personal life is being discussed. But the thing is ( and I love your insta ) your personal life is public. And that's how it's ended up being discussed. ( albeit in a very general way )

Thing is I feel like I know you from following you. But I don't do I. It's strange territory isn't it?

@ORangeSamphire, I don't think you're correct in saying gifted holidays, etc come under editorial content on Social Media and so don't need to be tagged with ad or sponsorship.

If you read Oneroofsocial.com blog, there are some very interesting articles around the advertising regulations/good practice for social media. The company is a media/influencers management company and the owner also has a separate fashion/lifestyle blog.

My only issues as I said on the last thread are transparency and the right to privacy of the children.

I also find the 'jealous' comments amusing. Many of us can afford to buy our own miele etc.

I like motherpukka - she is funny and honest and entertaining. And Esther Coren is very droll. I think those who come from a journalistic background as someone else said are the best to follow - they write well and also get the need to be transparent.

I don't follow any of the mummy/fashion bloggers any more. I do follow DMBL40 but she is the only one really and that is because she is funny.

And for those people criticising mn on insta - well I have made some amazing friends on it and also got a lot of support and advice when I needed it concerning one of my children.

The ad revenue from instagramming are like MLM companies for me - both worry me a lot for the position of mothers are work and in society. They are undermining the real 'flex appeal' (!) discussion in 'real life' jobs and careers for mothers. These paid ad options are not really sustainable and they should not be seen as aspirational in anyway.

I mean, really, we should admire them for finding paid work that doesn't involve childcare and should instead think that instagramming the shit out of your kids for cash is the aim in life? I really can't admire them for that.

Disclaimer - my kids faces are visible on some of my IG posts and I do look at all these peoples feeds regularly! It is like the new Heat magazine...

Oh cigarettesandcalpol has waded in now

cigarettesandcalpol.com/2017/09/03/that-thread-nastiness-and-transparency/

I really like her actually.

But I have a couple of things to pick out from her blog post.

1. I haven't seen anyone say anything negative about the appearance of children, apart from that one comment where it was already explained was tongue in cheek.

2. I love "the sisterhood". But saying this means simply supporting women because they are other women is a wilful misunderstanding of feminism. Women's choices are not and should not be immune from criticism.

3. as someone who has suffered from and written about MH issues herself, does she really condone SV calling us all "vitriolic psychos"?

Found out someone on here lives in the house behind me. We are all closer than we think. And yes, go for your life. I got a woman messaging me saying she saves up my instastories so her and her mates can cringe over them. I've had three 'cringes' on here, too so that's noted. And my family cringe so that's four.

I am seriously late to turn Instagram party and might have to sign up off the back of this thread - I have heard of hardly any of these people and the ones I have are just from Facebook.

The Fletchers seem like nice people but just so......dull. Giovanna's FB page is just not funny or anything, it's just a bit nothingy.

I actually quite like 'Man Vs Baby', he is hilarious and actually a really good writer. There is also another guy (Sam Avery?) who does 'diary of an 18 month old' type posts which are quite funny but very samey after a while.

The best one is The Unmumsy Mum. She seems to strike a balance between funny and genuine and is also quite a good writer.

Oh and I have to say, it does really piss me off when people write off Mumsnet as 'a vile cesspit' or whatever. People who say that have obviously never spent that much time on here, and it becomes one of those things where it's just the done thing to echo the 'Mumsnet is just full of bitches' thing.

Like others have said, Mumsnet is not a homogenous group of voices all saying the same thing. In fact the thing I love most about it is that, despite it leaning towards a more middle class demographic, there are people from all walks of life on here and you will always get different opinions on here. I love reading a thread and someone will say something which I will agree with and then someone else will counter argue it and I find myself thinking 'oh yes, good point well made'.

Good on Mother Pukka for actually commenting on the thread rather than getting all her followers to slag Mumsnet off.

Badmotherpukka I think at least you are aware and open about a) the fact that you are vlogging and flogging, b) that yes, there is an at least ethical responsibility to be transparent with what you are about and c) that anyone who purposes courts the public eye is indeed going to get haters (which I am not, I love you and your skankymankytitties in a non sexual, don't want a threesome with grandmotherpukka way).

OrangeSamphire the difference is that if you are reading a magazine or newspaper you know what the rules of engagement are. Instagram is a platform for everyone - normal people, people who want to flog stuff and everything in between and sometimes its really hard to decipher who is using the platform for what purpose unless they are transparent.

Personally I don't care if IG'er make cash or not, but I do like to know if I am following someone who has monetized their feed and I don't think that is unreasonable to ask for a little more transparency from others, especially when they are holding themselves out to be normal everyday mums and want people to relate to them.

Absolutely agree waitin about the rules of engagement being different because social media is an open forum anyone can use for any purpose, vs trad media.

I find the whole debate fascinating, as a heavy user of social media, a blogger and PR/marketing company owner my own personal experience crosses all the boundaries. When I started in PR, the internet wasn't even a thing really, let alone social media!

Thanks Mother Pukka for your perspective (and also for all the hard work with the flexi cause)

just tag stuff properly! #freebie #spon #ad

Is that so hard???

And, as a feminist I don't blindly say you're my bloody sister just Because you tell me too. Get a clue.

What did The Frugality say about this?

Dilly I'd agree with you if there are affiliate links in a post that haven't been declared but the post is earning the instagrammer or blogger money.

If not, and it also isn't an ad or sponsored post, it stands as editorial, according to current guidance.

Ads just need to be clearly defined as just that. If you've got a freebie, be it a holiday or 'gift' in exchange for a post, the it's an ad - not a recommendation or simple review or something you genuinely liked off your own back.

Things are changing with the legalities behind influencer ads (see here, although this is for affiliate marketing, but not too much different from #spon) and I'm sure it will get much clearer over time about what an ad online needs to make it clear to the reader that they are being advertised to.

I'm not sure it is an ad though nessie. I get the logic but the poster still maintains editorial integrity to say what they want about the freebie, whereas with advertising, the space is paid for and the advertiser has full control over the words/images/layout of the content.

With advertising, certainly in trad media, there is never a requirement for the editor/writer to have actually used/experienced said product either, whereas with editorial there is an expectation they have knowledge of it enough to do a reasonable write up.

Perhaps there are different expectations of bloggers/instagrammers. I don't know. I'm not sure if there should be or not. Anyone can be a citizen journalist now after all.