To ask you all about your minds eye?

[GrampieRabbit]

I've had a really long running thread about this a few years ago, but I wanted to revisit it - firstly because I find it really interesting, and secondly for dissertation ideas

So I don't have a minds eye. I couldn't picture a tree in my head, or a house, or my baby's face. I couldn't tell you 100% which colour my room is painted in, or what colour my dads car is. I literally think in words.

This means I have trouble with directions, even to places I've been several times. My memory is absolutely terrible - my long term memory is practically non existent.

Does anyone else experience similar? There's a test you can take here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-340390544*

I know I want to do my dissertation on this condition. I'm so fascinated by it, and have been ever since I realised it was actually a thing (on Mumsnet!)

But I want it to be on aphantasia AND something. I was thinking aphantasia and memory.

But I remember that last time I had a thread on this, Mumsnetters with aphantasia (and myself) read extraordinarily quickly, and always had done from a young age. So I was thinking maybe I could test the strength of participant's minds eyes (couldn't work out the grammar for that phrase!), and then timing them whilst they read something. But might have to include some comprehension questions I guess to check they've actually read it.

Then I started thinking about the fact that people said they had always read quickly - so is this something we're born with? Could I figure out a way to test kids for it? Maybe a little too complicated?

My dissertation proposal's due in a couple of days. It can be really vague - I could probably just get away with writing 'aphantasia', but I want to get paired with the most appropriate supervisor, hence the forward thinking. Am waiting on DD to go to bed then I'll research some more, but these are just some initial ideas.

Please, please share your experiences of aphantasia and thoughts on interesting dissertation ideas

Grampie it's fascinating!
When I'm thinking and going about my day I think in words like a running commentary - I don't see the words or hear them but it's like a conversation (one sided). Is that a bit like what you mean when you say you don't hear the words or see them??

I just did the test - I scored 40 ! Mr Eve refuses to do the test as he is content he has no visualisation! I do have a little facial blindness irl though - whereas Mr Eve is better than me (and if I do know who they are - which I mostly do! - then I remember their names and he doesn't!). Fascinating!

Interesting! I'm terrible at remembering sounds. Really bad - I can't take verbal instructions.
I can, and do, visualize anything I create before I make it. I can see it in my head, exactly how I want it. I also have a knack for moving furniture and knowing exactly if it will fit through a doorway / gap within a cm Something that used to drive my mum nuts when I'd try endless furniture combinations in my bedroom as a child!
I read much slower as an adult, I picture the scenes in my head. When I read a lot as a child, I could skim read very quickly, without images, but still understand the story. I prefer to read slowly and really build the story in my mind, but, on mumsnet, for example, I just read - quickly - without images. Just words. I think it's easier when it's comprehensible. Words I don't recognise I really do need to read slowly to put into "context" in a scene. If that makes sense? I started doing it when reading A Tale of Two Cities it was too complicated to read quickly and I had to look up words and imagine scenes to fully understand the meaning!
So I do kinda understand your thesis...

Grampie it's fascinating!
When I'm thinking and going about my day I think in words like a running commentary - I don't see the words or hear them but it's like a conversation (one sided). Is that a bit like what you mean when you say you don't hear the words or see them??

Not RTFT but intrigued.
I scored 20 on the test.
I was an early reader, good speller, was a fast reader (not sure if now).
Unobservant - don't know what colour friends' eyes are.
Good at getting meaning from texts and speech. Terrible at understanding what's going on in films - esp. action scenes etc.
Used to have great memory for text (layout, position on page etc). Not so good now.
And I have that thing where I see the orthographic form of words when I hear them. Sometimes dimly sometimes vividly. If I hear a word that I don't know how to spell, it really bugs me. Have often wondered if this is related to synesthesia (which I don't have except very occasionally or mildly).
I would be very interested to find out more about your research!

Wheelycote it's like a narration, isn't it? Thinking in words, I mean.

I must be a bit of both, because I get that too, with a lot of my thoughts. I get into a bit of a daydream when I visualise things so it's a good thing I don't always do it Like being in lala land.

Have to say, I do think you can train your mind to an extent. I'm an artist, and so I do have to visualise to an extent. I "see" things before they happen, and the same for my sport (climbing). It's something you're very much encouraged to develop though - particularly for anatomy and understanding light. You need to be able to "see" the form, which means seeing objects in 3d, not 2d. You need to be able to understand the form of objects in your head to truly be able to paint and draw well. That's why a lot of artwork doesn't translate well onto paper. And for my sport, well - if you can't visualise a route before you start, it's not ideal, for obvious reasons. It's dangerous!

When I wrote a lot, as a teen, I learnt to think in words for certain writing techniques. It helped a lot with poetry, and certainly made the process faster.

There are different ways to remember faces/people or directions, I definitely think you can train your brain or it's just something that has never consciously developed in some people (because it hasn't been conscious). I'm aware that because I can be an airhead (daydreamer) when I meet new people, I need to take a second to take a mental snapshot of their face / mannerisms to remember them for future. If I don't, I tend to forget. This is because I'm quite introvert and don't tend to think about other people when I'm not with them (I miss them - obviously - but I'm just not one of those people who thinks about other people all the time. I spend a lot of time in my own head...). I'm also terrible with directions, but again, this is because I tend to daydream when I'm actually on autopilot. I have to consciously force myself to "travel" a route in my mind's eye before I can give directions out. So, the visual map is there - but I have to turn it "on".

I took the quiz and I came out as hyperphantasia. I doubt I am - I certainly don't have a photographic memory which is what that would suggest. I think the self-reporting and lack of definitions doesn't help (same with all BBC quizzes...). The vast majority of us should be average, as law would govern.

Anyway. Some of you all might relate to this! It's been quite fascinating to read the thread!

I can't see anything in my mind. I can describe something in detail but I can't picture it.

Does anyone else pick up on facial resemblances, too? I mean, in an almost obsessive way? When I was in my teens and 20s, I was forever saying that this person looked just like that person. I've toned it down since being with STBXH, as it annoyed him😞 - but I still notice. It's like hyper-awareness.

I haven't rtft but the bits I did read sounds very interesting. There are so many directions you could take it in.

Links with ability to dream - dream training such as dream journals and lucid dreaming practice .

Or if you could get the permissions it would be fascinating to see if psychedelics gave you a minds eye.

Or take brain scans while getting people to do tasks. Like one imagination one and one reading one.

Argh so cool!! I'm off to take the test.

Just place marking for when baby is up for a feed. I find this so interesting.i can't see things in my mind at all, not even my children, I can describe their features but there is no image in my mind. I only learnt in my 20s that people could properly "picture things in their head" I thought it was just a turn of phrase!

Off to do the test. I've read at stupid speed since I learnt to read. When I look at a book, I see both pages at the same time so read a page at a time, not sentence by sentence
I miss out words like a/an/and/the as well

Oh and I don't visualise stuff in books at all. If I can't spell a word, I have to write it down, once I've "seen" it then I can remember it
My memory is much much better for words and text than images, I can read something and repeat it back. Generally I read at about 1500wpm, and 80% comprehension (my ex used me as a university study on how your eyes move when reading!)

When you read a novel, for example, how do you picture things in your head?
I don't. I just read them. My premise is that that's why aphantasia sufferers may be faster readers than those that don't - because they don't spend time picturing the scene.

See, I can't identify with aphantasia at all. (Just looked it up.) I am an extremely fast reader but I can vividly imagine the scenes in my head in each book I read! So this contradicts what you believe.

i can't see things in my mind at all, not even my children, I can describe their features but there is no image in my mind. I only learnt in my 20s that people could properly "picture things in their head" I thought it was just a turn of phrase!

It is interesting, isn't it? If I close my eyes (even if I don't) I can conjure up a mind's eye image of both kids. Right down to the freckles on their noses.

Sometimes I get disappointed when in the TV adaptation the characters look nothing like how I imagined them.

Lol, this is me. I remember watching the Secret Dreamworld of a Shopaholic film, Luke Brandon was absolutely NOTHING like I pictured him. Neither was Suze. Film bag of shite and totally unrealistic as a result and hated it

I've always read - and spoke - very fast.
With reading, i visualise as i read.
I'm also good at visualizing during meditations etc.
My dreams are very detailed and i've had quite a few lucid dreams as well.

However.....i've always got an inner dialogue going on in my head.
Like an imaginary friend who converses with me constantly.

My ability to memorise things longterm is pretty good.
Short term memory has kind of gone to shit since i've been taking my meds.

I got stuck on the test for this reason - am I supposed to see images in my head or when I close my eyes?

I am creative and I know how I want my work to look when I start out, however if I close my eyes I don't 'see' it.

I know I must have dreams but I very rarely am aware of them, only when I am close to waking and that is extremely rare.

With that test I struggled to see a person but in my head I know how they look, what does that mean?

I have often wondered about this and would love to know what it means.

GrampieRabbit that's very interesting.

My questions would be, whether people who are bind from birth experience aphantasia or not.

Also whether people who have aphantasia are more or less likely to be dyslexic.

Just thoughts that occur to me.

I made it 27 years without realising people could actually see stuff in their heads. I've always thought I was visualising, even though all I see is blackness I have an idea of what I'm visualising if you know what I mean. So say I was told to count sheep I would only see blackness but be thinking about what it should look like if I could see it.

Can't recognise faces very well but pretty good with lyrics.

I've always been a quick and voracious reader (apparently reading before nursery) and if there is writing on anything that's what my eye is always drawn to. It seems weird to say, but often I don't even "read" things in the conventional sense - I think I look at it as a whole image and sort of scan. I was once selected by an employer because they believed I had/have a "photographic memory"; Always done really well academically (although scraping by with almost no common sense and being a bit generally scatty) despite little effort and two of three children seemingly are the exactly same. Conversely when watching film/tv I commonly "see" the script in my head which is really distracting! I often remark to DH (who thinks I am bonkers) that the best movies to me are the ones where I don't end up reading along in my head...

Sorry - read that back and I realise slightly off topic. My point was I tend to see predominantly words in my head, even when there are moving pictures.

I feel really stupid right now, but I don't understand what this means. When people read books and imagine things, they "see" the images? I took the test in the first post, and it asked me to picture my best friend. I know what she looks like, I can name her features (brown hair, blue eyes, etc.) but I can't see her.

Another 40/40 score here.

I am thinking of an incident yesterday, someone was trying to describe the location of a cafe in a street I know reasonably well, I can take a mental visual walk down that street and even though I had no conscious memoru of the cafe location, as soon as I approach it in my " mental walk", bingo, up it pops and I can see and remember it clearly, even count the windows and "see" the colour of the door.

Wheelycote I do that narration thing too. I've never had anyone else admit to doing the same until this thread :)

I have a very weird form of aphantasia and always have.

Day to day stuff I can either not see or barely see. Ask me to conjure up an image of my kids and it's mainly factual (relative sizes, relative hair colour etc). I can't actually see them and I love those little guys more than life itself!

There are some images that I can see completely clearly. However all those images have to scare/profoundly upset me and then they are all I can see until they fade. The only image I have ever had of my mother is from seeing her after she died. I have to be really careful what I watch on telly or films. Because I have no good images to drown them out with if I get an image stuck in my head I really am stuck with it. Mum is only just fading and she died over 2 years ago.