To ask you all about your minds eye?

[GrampieRabbit]

I've had a really long running thread about this a few years ago, but I wanted to revisit it - firstly because I find it really interesting, and secondly for dissertation ideas

So I don't have a minds eye. I couldn't picture a tree in my head, or a house, or my baby's face. I couldn't tell you 100% which colour my room is painted in, or what colour my dads car is. I literally think in words.

This means I have trouble with directions, even to places I've been several times. My memory is absolutely terrible - my long term memory is practically non existent.

Does anyone else experience similar? There's a test you can take here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-340390544*

I know I want to do my dissertation on this condition. I'm so fascinated by it, and have been ever since I realised it was actually a thing (on Mumsnet!)

But I want it to be on aphantasia AND something. I was thinking aphantasia and memory.

But I remember that last time I had a thread on this, Mumsnetters with aphantasia (and myself) read extraordinarily quickly, and always had done from a young age. So I was thinking maybe I could test the strength of participant's minds eyes (couldn't work out the grammar for that phrase!), and then timing them whilst they read something. But might have to include some comprehension questions I guess to check they've actually read it.

Then I started thinking about the fact that people said they had always read quickly - so is this something we're born with? Could I figure out a way to test kids for it? Maybe a little too complicated?

My dissertation proposal's due in a couple of days. It can be really vague - I could probably just get away with writing 'aphantasia', but I want to get paired with the most appropriate supervisor, hence the forward thinking. Am waiting on DD to go to bed then I'll research some more, but these are just some initial ideas.

Please, please share your experiences of aphantasia and thoughts on interesting dissertation ideas

I can visualise walking through a forest, a completely made up one and it's just as good as if I was there. I can do that rio. I can do it right now. Don't be sad Grampie. It is completely fascinating and amazing how our brains our different .

OP do you know of any evidence about capacity to improve/what improves the aphantasia?

From what I've read, no. There seems to be conflicting evidence about whether we do produce mental imagery, but just can't access it (this doesn't fully make sense to met yet), or we just don't have the ability at all. Research seems to side with the latter.

So as for a treatment/ cure, it doesn't sound like one's been formed, or is even possible. But I've only been doing academic research this evening, this past few years I've just read newspaper articles and things. There's quite a lot out there! Though not compared to other conditions. Very interesting. Really excited to get started!

NC, I can't remember my dreams so I have no idea wish I could.

Thanks a lot Heman, would be really useful MNHQ!

m.facebook.com/notes/blake-ross/aphantasia-how-it-feels-to-be-blind-in-your-mind/10156834777480504/

This is an absolutely brilliant article that explains it better than I ever could.

Unicorn, i have took one before and i scored on the borderline between no symptoms and possible autism/ aspergers. But I have GAD and social anxiety so those were the only questions I answered 'yes' for, if that makes sense. I haven't read my friend's thesis yet, but it's certainly an interesting association!

I have done the test and scored 20. I'm OK with colours and can picture objects but have a real problem with faces. I have walked past friends in the street many times and even failed to notice dd in a group of people. Strangely I can't visualise my mum's face but can remember a photo of her.
My memory for things I hear is good and I can hear people's voices in my head. I also have good spacial awareness for shapes I can fit all the toys in the cupboard, but very poor sense of direction. I am however good at map reading.
I learnt to read quite early, read quite fast but cannot spell at all my shopping lists are fun for all the family, I can spell a word wrong a different way each time unless I have learned the letters verbally.

It was me who asked about face blindness hana. Thank you for answering my question. Utterly fascinating and don't be alarmed if someone like me says 'Oh! Hello! How Are You? Lovely to see you again!' .

When I read it is almost like watching a film. It's constant moving pictures.

This is so alien to me my jaw actually dropped when reading it. I didn't know this was possible and I agree with the poster that said they thought "mental images" was a metaphorical phrase. That's what I thought too.

I did the test and got 10/40, but I suspect it's lower than that as I put "vague and dim" for one or two as I thought I must be able to sometimes, even though I couldn't on that occasion, and don't remember ever having done so.

I have always been a fast reader. And with good verbal skills.

Feel a bit sad there's some human experience I'm missing out on.

Oh this is so strange! I never knew that other people couldn't see things in their minds! I scored 8/40 on the test, and was completely incapable of imagining my friend at all. I've always been crap at hypnotherapy or meditation if asked to visualise something. I don't dream much either, or remember them if I do. I have a dream diary and have only managed to remember about 5 in the last 3-4 years!

I learned to read at 3 and was (and am) a voracious reader, I remember reading the Hobbit at about 7 years old. I can easily read 2-3 books a day if left to my own devices. I don't see pictures as I read either. I listen to a lot of audiobooks at the moment and I don't get any images from them either.

Interestingly though, I am brilliant with faces! To the point where I recognise someone I met once 10 years ago and it's actually embarrassing to have to admit how I know them...

I also have a knack for remembering song lyrics, number plates, everyone's old phone numbers etc.

It's actually quite reassuring to know I'm not
alone!

I just took it and scored 34. Images in my head are mostly vivid; DH just tested me and went upstairs and asked me to describe in as much detail as I could dhow our bedroom looked including what laundry was where, what products were facing in what direction on the dresser and which shoe boxes were at the front of the wardrobe. I can see all of it in my head clear as day.

It's an odd thing, something I've never thought much of. I always assumed that was why I loved reading, though, because I can 'see' the story happening around me like a film.

I scored 39. I have the opposite - hyperphantasia. Actually, just typing that word has scenes from Fantasia dancing in front of my eyes, followed by a flyer from a rave in about 1993.
I see films when I read books too.
Do aphantasia people feel they are missing out?

I’d be interested to know about the effect of aphantasia on school performance or on life skills in general.

The link I gave up-thread to the work of Silverman concerned gifted visual-spatial thinkers who struggle with language. Their weakness is recognised because so much of education relies on the possession of verbal abilities. And they are given help to find coping strategies.

Are those who struggle with visualising held back in a similar but more hidden way? Presumably there are parts of IQ tests that people with aphantasia would find challenging and this might indicate some subtle difficulties with 'real life' tasks, academic or otherwise. Might there be a possibility of helping such people, just as those with verbal weaknesses are helped?

Do aphantasia people feel they are missing out?

Massively! I'd love to be able to imagine something in my head like a film. Just sounds incredible to me.

I have to turn the map the right way round to read it. Have always been amazed that DH doesn't have to.... for him it's the same either way . Don't know if that sort of thing might be related.

I wouldn't say I'm challenged with words. I have a degree in English and write for a living. I think being very visual helps with my writing actually, because I picture something and describe what I see.

I wouldn't say I'm challenged with words. I have a degree in English and write for a living. I think being very visual helps with my writing actually, because I picture something and describe what I see.

My hypothesis that people with aphantasia will be better with word recall is based on the fact that:

(1) studies show that words which invoke a complex mental image take up storage capacity in our memories - makes sense that people who don't produce these mental images have more 'space' to remember words

(2) if you've always thought and remembered in words, it's likely you'll be more skilled at a word recall game just due to constant practice in a related area

Could be wrong though! But interesting nonetheless. I don't mean non-aphantasic people are challenged by words. I'd be absolutely shit at writing, there's no way I could write good descriptive prose.

This is so interesting! I am a very fast reader and have been from an early age. Am a very visual learner. I do see pictures/images in my minds eye but also sometimes words. An example is if I'm remembering a movie, Titanic for instance, I can visually replay the scene in my head but also see the words that the actors say. I also have extremely vivid dreams.

My day to day memory sucks but used to be excellent. I think it's a PTSD symptom now though. I love the diversity in this thread, it's fascinating!

Wow interesting! I see fairly clear images in my mind. When I'm reading a book i am in the story watching a bit like a movie. When I put the book down its like hitting a visual pause. When I think about where I left off I can visualise were I left off.

I'm reading a book where two guys having a conversation in a church. Faces are never clear though. I see parts of faces (bottom half, side on etc) don't seem to see front but then that would be creepy. It'd be like they can see me seeing them inside the story.

I can't do horror movies. I like idea of them but the visuals stay with me for a long time. I'll dream about them for a couple of weeks. Even tv clips of upcoming horrors terrify me. I go mad I really think a warning should come on the tv before they show the advert!

Never knew that some people only see words.

Literally a word? Is there colour in the image??? I.e is the background black and letters white??

Just did the test and got 37/40. Interesting stuff.

This is so interesting, I'm the opposite.
Really fast reader, really strong minds eye, like if I put a tester splodge of paint on the wall I can imagine the whole room finished.
I can read a book and it becomes so vivid, I can dream about book scenes too. I can imagine a whole scenario play out in my head that's just like real life that leaves me furious/sad/anxious.
When I try and describe anything to my dp he just does not get it, always says I have no image of what your talking about.
I never knew this was a thing!

Literally a word? Is there colour in the image??? I.e is the background black and letters white??

I don't actually see words, I can't visualise them. I just think in them. I can't hear them either. It's such a difficult thing to explain 😩

In my dreams there are no words not even speech, just pictures and some music. It's kind of weird now I think about it, unless that's how dreams are.

I'm not good with words, I'm pretty good at drawing but writing stuff down is not a strong point of mine.

I'm terrible at remembering written words but if I'm listening to a song I can listen to the song once maybe twice and then I can play the whole song back in my head, if I've seen the music video I add that in too, if not I make one up.

I feel like remembering or picturing words must be very useful. I think being in the middle would be best.

I always assumed people that didn't see pictures saw words instead, now I'm rather confused.

I cant imagine how you think, OP. According to the test you linked, I have hyperphantasia, which isn't surprising. I grew up around deaf people and think visually - I take it for granted.

I got 38 out of 40 in that test😳 no wonder I get my words muddled up all the time. There can't be much space for words 😂

If you're interested in it, please do read the article I linked above. The guy explains it so much better than me.