To ask you all about your minds eye?

[GrampieRabbit]

I've had a really long running thread about this a few years ago, but I wanted to revisit it - firstly because I find it really interesting, and secondly for dissertation ideas

So I don't have a minds eye. I couldn't picture a tree in my head, or a house, or my baby's face. I couldn't tell you 100% which colour my room is painted in, or what colour my dads car is. I literally think in words.

This means I have trouble with directions, even to places I've been several times. My memory is absolutely terrible - my long term memory is practically non existent.

Does anyone else experience similar? There's a test you can take here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-340390544*

I know I want to do my dissertation on this condition. I'm so fascinated by it, and have been ever since I realised it was actually a thing (on Mumsnet!)

But I want it to be on aphantasia AND something. I was thinking aphantasia and memory.

But I remember that last time I had a thread on this, Mumsnetters with aphantasia (and myself) read extraordinarily quickly, and always had done from a young age. So I was thinking maybe I could test the strength of participant's minds eyes (couldn't work out the grammar for that phrase!), and then timing them whilst they read something. But might have to include some comprehension questions I guess to check they've actually read it.

Then I started thinking about the fact that people said they had always read quickly - so is this something we're born with? Could I figure out a way to test kids for it? Maybe a little too complicated?

My dissertation proposal's due in a couple of days. It can be really vague - I could probably just get away with writing 'aphantasia', but I want to get paired with the most appropriate supervisor, hence the forward thinking. Am waiting on DD to go to bed then I'll research some more, but these are just some initial ideas.

Please, please share your experiences of aphantasia and thoughts on interesting dissertation ideas

I've not read the full thread - only the first couple of pages.

I read quickly and my focus is very much on the words. When I speak or hear others speaking I "see" the words. My son does the same. He is diagnosed with Aspergers.

I've tried to visualise people, including my mother and my son, and I find it really difficult. It's as if the image slips away from me. The only way I can really "see" a person in my mind's eye is if I recall a photograph of them.

I do however, find it very easy to "see" places and objects. I have a good sense of direction, can read maps, and find my way about. But I don't instinctively or quickly know my right from my left, so struggle to follow verbal directions or give directions to someone else, even if I know the way.

I can visualise a map or route in my mind's eye. My mother was trying to give me directions to a garage recently and she was describing the route sequentially to me. I had to say to her just to tell me the destination so I could see it on a map, then I'd be able to get there. I was actually feeling quite panicky when she was saying, "take a right after the police station, then at the mini roundabout go left ..." Just tell me where the garage is!!!

I can remember smells, and they are linked to visual memories of places and things. I grew up on a farm and one time went camping with friends. We pitched our tents in the dark, pretty much, and I could smell barley. Even in the dark, I could say where the smell was coming from, roughly how far away, and the height, colour and growth stage of the barley. A friend was up early the next morning, went for a walk and was amazed to find the barley field exactly as I had described it.

And I am terrible at recognising people. It takes me a long time to familiarise myself with new people and even then, if they change their hairstyle or stop wearing their usual red coat, I might not know them.

Very dim visual imagination. Very early reader (started learning at 2 1/2, was reading LoTR independently by age 6). Probably ASD, but never diagnosed. Appalling at recognising faces. Good narrative memory. It's an interesting area.

@ OP & PPs

When you are asked spell a word out loud, do you think you are using the visual or auditory recall system in the brain? Sounds daft, but I can't work out which I use. Do people who use one system over the other find it easier / harder?

I did the test and got 40/40. I have a very vivid minds eye and can see things in my mind in minute detail. When I am trying to falls asleep I tell myself elaborate stories accompanied by mental images and they are always very detailed. It is concentrating on the detail that makes me fall asleep. I cannot imagine having no pictures in my mind.

This is fascinating and my mind is blown! I didn't know people could actually 'see' things in their mind's eye. I tend to describe a scene, object or person in my head when imagining something. I've also been reading since very young and read quickly. I'm really curious now about the reading experience other people have - imagining scenes and characters visually.

Lots to think about here and I'm going to go back and read this thread in full.

I have a very clear mind's eye for remembering things I've seen - I would even say photographic when I was younger. I did very well at exams as I could "see" the material I'd been revising and reproduce it in an exam situation. I can very often place people I've only seen once or twice in a film from years ago, when I see them in something else, and I never get lost or forget a face. I'm a really fast reader too, and my spatial awareness is good. What I can't do very easily is visualise things from either a written or verbal description. I also sometimes have trouble visualising faces of people I'm close to - not remembering em when I see them again, but imagining what they look like - for instance, after my mum died, I really couldn't see her face in my head, though I could visualise her hands and her feet, so some weird reason. I can "see" her face now - it came back gradually.

Hi Logans

You asked about spelling words. I am someone with a vague visual image which is very spatial but with limited detail (17 in the test). I have fairly good aural recall and my memory is linked to "doing", I write left handed, but am fairly ambidextrous and am right eyed so not strongly handed.

When I think of how to spell "elephant" I feel my hand writing it in my head, if I think about it, I see it as if it is hand written in water. If I think about typing it, I feel my fingers typing it and it appears. For "eau" in French, I can hear my French teacher from when I was 11 saying "er-ar-oo", if I look up from my page in my head, I know how much space she took up and how she moved but I can't see her in detail. It's like there is a space where she should be. I know she had dyed red hair but I don't see it.

I use my visual awareness in my work to the point where I found several square feet of a room that had been blocked off years ago because I could picture the room and the room below and the far wall in the living room below went further back than the corresponding wall in one of the bedrooms. If someone gives me 2 addresses i can see how to get from one to another by "flying" down roads turning left and right untill I got to the destination. I can see the shops, people, cars etc.on the way and can picture the building when I get there.

*"I definitely think there will be exceptions. Though unfortunately I won't be asking you to take part - as I'm dreaming of getting published so need significant results"

Nothing like picking and choosing your subjects for a clinical trial.*

I did say this was a joke, I want everyone to take part

Thanks so much everyone. Ive got a long list of points/ limitations to consider.

What this thread says to me is that we all have really different combos of skills and that you can't always see a pattern.

But there might be patterns, if there were more research.

Fascinating thing, the human brain.

Re spelling, I do it syllable-by-syllable. So if I'm spelling 'elephant' as a pp said, I would say each syllable first, then spell it. As a child I did this out loud, as an adult I do it in my head, but hearing it in my head IYSWIM. When I practised spellings with my DDs I did it that way, which might explain why DD1 who is very auditory now has brilliant spelling, and DD2 who is more visual, spells atrociously. Oh dear, there's another thing she can blame me for.

Thank you so much for this thread. I don't think I've ever felt so blown away by learning something new. This explains so much for me. I scored 40/40 in the test and initially thought it a waste of time because I just didn't know that others couldn't "see" things. It has completely freaked my DH out though as he is the opposite. He can see shadows of people and does have a few visual memories, but mainly everything is dark and shadowy. He was shocked that I could not only see things in colour but in the level of detail that I can (I explained how I could picture every freckle on his mum's face, her teeth, eyebrows etc in great detail despite having not seen her for a few months). He couldn't picture a carrot or red triangle, although could form the outline/shadow of one if he tried really hard. There was a similar shock when he realised that what I can see moves.

I now finally understand why he struggled so much to visualise what a renovated house would look like, or why he can't imagine what a piece of furniture in a shop would look like in our home.

We don't conform with your theory about reading though. I can devour books in no time, whereas he is much slower and prefers audiobooks (although we suspect undiagnosed dyslexia). He struggles with empathy and thought that if he was going to do any research, he would see if there was a connection there. Best of luck with the dissertation OP, I look forward to hearing more about it.

I can clearly picture the house I grew up in and my school. I can clearly picture events from
My life

Havent rtft.

I have face blindness, and if i try to visualise a face it usually ends up like a picasso painting. Visualising other things is also not very clear, though not as bad.

But have you looked at the "non-visual" part of "picturing". I can feel now the exact pressure in my fingers when i picked some tomatoes earlier today, the weight of them in my hand and the feeling of having to balance a whole handful, the texture and taste of them in my mouth. When that bbc test told me to "visualuse" a thunderstorm i didn't "see" one so much as feel the change in the air, the sudden darkening and change of temperature, the sound of thunder, the first raindrops hitting my skin.

Do researchers recognise different types of visualising?

"There was a similar shock when he realised that what I can see moves. "

eek! it MOVES!?!

I'm with him on this...

I wonder if lack of empathy has any connection with inability to visualise?

When I first met my OH (who has little to no natural empathy, and generally has to 'act' it rather than feel it), he couldn't understand how I could write books with characters other than 'me' in (different ethnic background, physical disabillity, different sexuality), and said he didn't read fiction because 'it's all made up so why should I care?' We talked about it and he said he can't read fiction because he literally CANNOT imagine being anyone other than himself. He can't visualise, has no inner eye, and, as I said, lacks empathy.

It would seem a logical connection to me (or dis-connection), does it hold true for others?

Well, no, Zaphodsotherhead I would not consider myself to lack in empathy, and I doubt all the other posters who wrote about it here do.

Whilst nobody wants to say it about themselves, Chardonnay, they might have observed it in others, as in MintTeaLady's post above, where she says her DH 'struggles with empathy'.

Spelling has been mentioned. I have very poor ability to visualise, but I am an outstanding speller. I have no idea how I do it. I definitely don't use auditory cues when spelling.

Now I am sitting here thinking of spelling a particular long word aloud, and I STILL don't know how I do it! I can only turn my awareness to a sequence of a few letters at a time. It's as if I were moving a torch slowly across the word. Only it isn't quite like that, because I don't SEE the word at all; I'm only AWARE of which letters come next. It isn't in a specific font; it isn't printed or cursive; it isn't uppercase or lowercase. I just know which few letters come next. If I spell a long word aloud, I do it slowly and may lose my place.

I can very quickly identify a misspelled word on the page, however. So when I'm typing, I just type the word very quickly and then look to see whether I've got it right or whether I need to go back and correct it.

So two posters think their DPs struggle with empathy and you come to the conclusion that empathy and lack of visualising abilities are connected?

You don't think your sample is too small or that it lacks in objectivity?

I have plenty of natural empathy thanks.

I don't have any problems with empathy or imagining in general. I find it very easy to imagine how other people feel. The only thing I can't do is visualise things. When I imagine sounds or music I hear them clear as a bell, I just don't have the ability to picture things in my head. If anything I think my inability to picture things has improved my other kinds of memory and imagination. It's like my brain has more "room" left for other stuff.

I have an excess of empathy!

Whilst I struggle to visualise, my imagination is heavy on emotion, plenty of empathy here (to the extent that I can't watch some stuff on TV)