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Original poster

To be frustrated by the misunderstanding of the honorific 'Ms' ?

662 replies

ChinkChink · 28/08/2017 11:06

Inspired by another thread.

I've come across many people who believe that 'Ms' is the honorific for a divorced woman, rather than the female equivalent of 'Mr'. People including several employers, managers, supervisors etc, plus friends and family who I'd normally regard as clued up. And many of them women. Confused

I do welcome the introduction of the term 'Mx' as a title to be used when gender is irrelevant [almost always!] but I fear that Mx will go the same way - people will interpret it as a title for someone who is [for example] transgender.

What say you, MN massive?

OP posts:
derxa · 30/08/2017 11:20

I think Ms rhymes with words in English that are not very serious eg fizz jizz and biz. That might be the problem.

BoysofMelody · 30/08/2017 11:55

I don't mispronounce it in a theatrically cumbersome way. I just think that Ms pronounced Mzz

Because it isn't pronounced mzz. It is pronounced Miz (to rhyme with Liz)

Nor does it sound remotely similar to the pronunciation of 'Miss'. Not in most British accents anyway.

woollyheart · 30/08/2017 12:10

Having recently had some difficulties myself trying to change my title to my preferred one, it does strike me that there is widespread confusion here.

Firstly, Ms doesn't seem to be clearly understood to be the equivalent of Mr. Secondly, people and systems don't always support the idea that you can choose this yourself, and that you are allowed to change your preference (and this doesn't have to be only in certain scenarios such as after marriage or divorce).

I agree that general education maybe could do a better job of clarifying that Ms is simply a female version of Mr.

But some computer systems are adding to the problem by treating the title as a 'fixed' part of our identity, and not letting us choose or change our preferred option ( which may be Ms Mr Mrs Miss Dr etc. or no title at all)

Is this worth raising with some of the computer bodies (BCS?) to see what guidance or standards exist, and find out why this is sometimes not working properly?

echt · 30/08/2017 12:14

I agree that general education maybe could do a better job of clarifying that Ms is simply a female version of Mr.

Wikipedia defines it precisely. No general education needed.

There are are none so deaf as those that will not hear.

derxa · 30/08/2017 12:17

Because it isn't pronounced mzz. It is pronounced Miz (to rhyme with Liz) Absolutely. A syllable has to have a vowel sound in it.

BorisTrumpsHair · 30/08/2017 12:25

But some computer systems are adding to the problem by treating the title as a 'fixed' part of our identity, and not letting us choose or change our preferred option ( which may be Ms Mr Mrs Miss Dr etc. or no title at all)

In fact it is only because "computer says you must select option" that I use a "title" at all. I would prefer not to use one. I think they are unnecessary.

If a computer wants to know if I am male of female I can answer that without telling them my "chosen title."

In fact from now on I will choose a different option every time a computer insists I pic one. Social titles are NOT legal parts of our names.

Computer says choose. I say fuck you computer form.

sweetbitter · 30/08/2017 12:34

Huh. I have always pronounced it "muhzz" to rhyme with "buzz".

Copperbeech33 · 30/08/2017 12:36

Miss is very much part of my name, I am Miss Beech. I hate Ms, and I don't answer to it ever. I've been handed name tags with ms on in the past, and I've crossed it out, or handed it back.

I do know someone in real life who insists on Ms ( prunounced Muz, not Miz) but most people I know don't like it but put up with it, the only other people I have ever come across who actively want it are on MN.

personally, I don't see why anyone who doesn't like it should feel they have to put up with it. I have refused and returned credit and store cards where it has been used incorrectly.

The situation with one particular credit card is particularly stupid. I was written down as Ms by the person who dealt with the original application, without my consent. And to change it, I have to prove I am not!

I have refused it and sent it back every time.

Copperbeech33 · 30/08/2017 12:37

Huh. I have always pronounced it "muhzz" to rhyme with "buzz".

that is the only pronunciation I've ever herd in 30 years.

This "Miz" business is new today on this thread - doesn't exist in real life as far as I know.

BoysofMelody · 30/08/2017 12:47

This "Miz" business is new today on this thread - doesn't exist in real life as far as I know

You need to get out more and stop mispronouncing a relatively easy to pronounce word.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 30/08/2017 12:51

Huh. I have always pronounced it "muhzz" to rhyme with "buzz".

that is the only pronunciation I've ever herd in 30 years.

This "Miz" business is new today on this thread - doesn't exist in real life as far as I know

Yes, you really do need to get out more.

derxa · 30/08/2017 12:52

Here

It's spoken by a MAN though Grin
theymademejoin · 30/08/2017 12:52

Just to clarify - the computer does not want to know what your title is. The computer system is not contributing to the problem.

The problem is created by the people who programme the computers and by those who define the requirements for the computer system.

IT is still quite male dominated..........

ThymeLordIsSpartacus · 30/08/2017 12:56

I hate Ms, and I don't answer to it ever

Why? Genuinely, why?

mistressiggi · 30/08/2017 12:59

I'm a teacher and I've been called Ms (Mizz) for at least 20 years now by children with no problems. Now and then someone has thought it means divorced, but I am happy to educate them. Perhaps adults should be as open to change as children are!

HairNinja · 30/08/2017 12:59

I must admit, I don't pronounce it Miz, it's more like muz but not such a pronounced 'u' sound as buzz.
I also work in IT and whenever I come across a title field (in personal life or at work) that doesn't include Ms as an option, I raise it with the website or sys admin or whatever. It's rare that that happens these days though but people who want it should make their voices heard.

SenecaFalls · 30/08/2017 13:02

It's pronounced Miz in the US where it is the default title. It signifies "adult female." No other connotation. As others have said, it's an abbreviation of mistress as Mr is an abbreviation of mister, taking the first and last letters of the word. At one time " mistress" did not connote marriage and was used for unmarried women as well. So it's not all that new-fangled, except that we have the complicating factor of not actually pronouncing mistress so having to come up with a pronunciation for the abbreviation, which is Miz.

derxa · 30/08/2017 13:04

Mr is an abbreviation of mister It's an abbreviation on paper but not in speech.

Copperbeech33 · 30/08/2017 13:06

O, its an americanism, that would explain why Miz doesn't exist in real life in the UK, and I've only ever heard Muz

Copperbeech33 · 30/08/2017 13:08

Why? Genuinely, why? because I am "miss", a single, independent woman, with no requirement for any man, perfectly strong and capable enough to run my own household without any male input, and happy and proud to say so.

my friends who are Mrs, and happy and proud to say so, i understand.

Saying Muz, to me means messed up, not happy and proud of who they are.

Copperbeech33 · 30/08/2017 13:10

I also work in IT and whenever I come across a title field (in personal life or at work) that doesn't include Ms as an option, I raise it with the website or sys admin or whatever. It's rare that that happens these days though but people who want it should make their voices heard.

I think it is more likely that "Miss" is the option that is missing.

derxa · 30/08/2017 13:11

Copper Much as I hate the bloody term it's 'mizz'

Scrumpington · 30/08/2017 13:12

'that would explain why Miz doesn't exist in real life in the UK'

It exists where I am!

Scrumpington · 30/08/2017 13:13

Did no one else read Mizz magazine as a teen in the 90s?

ThymeLordIsSpartacus · 30/08/2017 13:14

Oh, I see. Well, more fool me for asking!

Now do excuse me please, I must get back to being messed up, unhappy and not proud of who I am.

Lots of love,
MsThymeLord