To wonder why people bully?

[Picklesandpies]

I was bullied from the minute I started primary school (my first memory is being held up to wall by another four year old girl and her flicking my elasticated tie in my eyes) until I left after A Levels. The bullying varied from physical, emotional, to just plain cruel (urinating on my gloves). It really affected my attitude to school and my self confidence and it has taken decades for me to be able to speak about it without getting upset. I was always a nice, well brought up, caring and polite girl at school but it made my life a misery. I have seen the main culprit in recent years and she still looks at me with a sneer all these years later (I'm in my 30s!)

Her friend was asked a couple of years ago by a mutual friend of ours, why she bullied me and her answer was 'I don't know. She was just awful to her.' I was amazed that even her closest friend didn't understand the reason behind it.

AIBU to wonder why people bully others? I would love to understand the reasons behind it better. I'm guessing it's insecurity mainly.

Thank you pickles thankfully we are through the worst of it now as we can avoid them for the most part. And all DD's friends are doing the same because of their experiences with her. Which of course is making the mum rant about unsupportive friends and cliquiness etc but you know what I don't care anymore - we have all tried too hard for too long and she still won't accept that her DD is a bully. It's just the DD I feel sorry for as she is going to grow up very lonely indeed because her mum won't help her.

Italian I wish I'd had the mettle to do anything like that but I just didn't have the strength :(. It was actually the final straw with that school - sad as DD had been pretty happy there - we ended up withdrawing DS after that. Oddly enough within about 3 months of leaving the school DS was suddenly discharged from speech therapy (which he'd been having for 3.5 years) because he drastically improved. He left the environment that was toxic to him and suddenly found his voice.

I think sometimes teachers and schools naturally favour pupils who are naturally confident, a bit cheeky and a bit mouthy (not saying everyone with those characteristics are bullies of course!) because they can relate to them more easily than quiet, shy, insecure, sensitive types. Because they are naturally looking at things through confident adult eyes, not through the eyes of an insecure child, if that makes sense.

I agree that it's not necessarily because they are evil little shits. Much as I hate the child who has done this to DD, as I said, I do feel sorry for her. Now that I've realised what her mum is like I can see that really the DD had no chance not to end up just like her. Not because of inheriting some nasty gene (although I do think some people just have more capacity to be nasty when others just don't have it in them) - but because of how she has been brought up, having every bit of bad behaviour excused and deflected onto her victims.

It does make me really sad. But that's no reason for anyone to have to put up with it. I spent too long excusing it - it's just because she wants you to herself as you're her best friend, etc. But then I realised what message it was sending DD. What if she's in a relationship one day and her partner treats her like that, and I've conditioned her to put up with it because she feels sorry for them?

I do think that part of the problem is that schools are not allowed to recognise that some children are just nasty.

Not all bullies have an underlying issue that "makes" them a bully. Some are just nasty little people.

I teach in an infant school and honestly believe that parents play a huge part in how bullying behaviour begins and (hopefully) ends. So many parents see only the positive in their DCs without being realistic about the behaviour. So many parents refuse to acknowledge or modify the bad behaviour that often precedes bullying, thinking their child is misunderstood or cheeky. And you also have a percentage of parents who believe that it's a dog-eat-dog world and having tough children is something to be lauded, that having a child who is rough and ready means they've done something right as parents.

I know this is putting it all onto parents and it's absolutely not as simple as that; schools, extracurricular groups and peers all have a role to play, too. But I truly believe that if parents were more honest about their DCs flaws - and dealt with them swiftly - there'd be less bullying.

I say that as a parent of a child who has bullied someone else; he was overheard being terribly unkind to a boy he goes to a club with. Instead of telling the teacher "oh he'd never do that" like the parent of the other child who'd also been overheard bullying did, we made damned sure that DS1 apologised face-to-face with the boy and his parents, and that he understood how shitty his actions were. The other boys Mum buried her head in the sand and six months later, he's been in trouble several times over for continuing to bully others, where DS1 has learned that he'll be bollocked to within an inch of his life if he tries it again.

I was, but not in the typical sense and not deliberately. My school had a major bullying problem anyway, so mostly it was attack being a form of defence. And I made a special point of only doing it either one on one or where I was outnumbered. And I was very keen to defend the underdog, anyone I thought was vulnerable I would stand up for. And in any case, the other person had to start it, I'd just finish it.

Admittedly I often took things to extremes, was only ever physical in defence, but verbally I was articulate and vicious, with the ability to rip someone to shreds and make others laugh at the same time.

And from my perspective, anyone who didn't meet my criteria of vulnerable and got upset about my behaviour was pathetic and needed to stop being so weak.

So eg girl x made a comment about y being a thick tramp. I knew y's personal situation and went to town on x immediately, and also her best friend who tried defending their right to insult y. And I continued it for years. When x cried in front of me, and y told me x was frequently upset by me, she sank even lower in my estimation because she clearly was not only a bully herself, but then wanted to play the victim. And whilst I can acknowledge now that lots of what I said and did was worthy of tears, and I could have made my point without being quite so vile, compared to the shit I dealt with all the time as a teen, it was her problem if she was too sheltered and weak to cope with anything a classmate said. Unless there was another complex reason, imo back then anyone who could go crying to mummy over something I said clearly had fuck all to be crying about.

And most of the situations I was involved with were like the above.

On the other hand, a girl dd knew when younger did it because of her pfb parents. She had no concept of anyone else's feelings, and had spent her life thinking anyone who didn't do what she wanted was horrible, and therefore she could be horrible back. And no concept that she wasn't the centre of the universe. School obviously didn't agree so she then went through a phase of doing sly things and then running off crying when the victim retaliated. Unfortunately the pfb parents ruined schools efforts, and at secondary the poor kid has no friends, a victim complex and is still bullying others.

This is so scary to type. I bullied somebody. Well, as I grew up I felt my actions were that of a bully. 25 years later I actually had a friend request off the person I bullied. I pondered for days whether I should accept. I was so scared of hearing how awful I made this person feel. However, i told myself I actually owe it to him to let him tell me I am vile. So I accepted. He started a pm conversation with Hi. I replied hi. Waiting for the biggest reality check of my life. It never came. So i bought it up. I apologised and said I have no idea how I made you feel and I have regretted it every day.
His reply struck me. He said not once did he ever think I was horrible to him. I took the mick out of him a couple of times. He saw it as a bit of fun. He used to take the micky back (rightly so) I am actually invited to go to his wedding and have met up for coffee, where I burst into tears saying how awful I was to him. He sat me down and said 'you didn't ever say anything horrible' I called him a shorty a few times. Growing up I saw this as bullying. It is now a nickname he uses. He is way over 6ft tall! So yes I still regret what i called him. So why do people bully? I have no idea why, because I have beaten myself up all of my life and still do, for calling somebody a name they took as banter. I have learned a lesson though and refuse to bitch, gossip and name call

To the pp that asked if hitting back is a solution, I honestly don't know. In my DS case, yes it worked and since he became well known for competing in martial arts fighting at an international level, nobody ever bothered him again.

On the flip side, when my DD was in year 7, a girl in her class who was being bullied retaliated but since the bully was confident and popular, she found herself being bullied by several other girls as a result.

That may be a result of the age when it happens or the sex of the children involved.

I must admit, my DS was never told off for punching the bully but he has always known if he started a fight or bullied another child he would have to answer to us and to his instructor.

Weakness- kids can smell it. They're not emotionally mature (and some never do emotionally mature) so don't make allowances for differences. Or they just dislike someone and not emotionally mature enough to hide it.

I was bullied from Infants to Junior 5 (now Year 5) and I the end I snapped , mum was called into school, shit hit the fan ... all because I retaliated for once.

The girl pulled my hair (was long then) all the time and once my DM even bought her some pretty ribbon as we thought it might stop her.

I forgive her as an adult though . I did not understand what DM meant at the time when she said "Ks Mum beats her" . I understand now and I forgive her and wish her well . They moved back to Ireland .

I think Papa makes a very good point - I think being part of the 'cool' crowd is very difficult as you could be chucked out at any time...my brother dated one of the hangers on a couple of years later and she said how tough it was to make sure you always did the right thing and wore the right clothes, as one wrong step could get you kicked out.

I think that is why I got such a hard time from so many people at school - from the people who actually directly picked on me to those who just laughed as they walked by me. I think because I didn't care about the cool clothes or the cool places to go, rejecting me was showing they were cool. Irritatingly, the whole thing about bullies getting their comeuppance is wrong, all my bullies are incredibly successful and gorgeous...damn them!

Brownsauce, I think that's often true. And a bit of Stockholm syndrome. Teachers tend to like the confident kids and some of those kids are bullies. The shy kids, and the introverted ones, are not the ones making nasty comments and putting other kids down, but teachers don't seem to warm to those as often as they do the sports captain types.

I did not pull the head up either. I should have. I didn't .

With regards to fighting back, that only works if your fighting back will work.

If you are smaller and weak and you try and hit the bully, they will just laugh at your pathetic efforts.

Bitter experience...

I don't think that's always true lizzie. Shy/quiet/introverted kids are just as capable as being nasty. And when they are they are just as likely to get away with it because they can play up to the fact that poor little me wouldn't say or do anything to the confident/loud/extrovert kid. And just like the deluded parents who view their bullying extrovert as just spirited, the same deluded parents see their bullying quiet kid as too sensitive to be a bully.

I was never really bullied, just the odd nasty thing said to me which I'm sure a majority of children experience.

The worst was when one girl in my year (never spoke to her and never had classes with her so I genuinely could never have done anything to her) started following me after school and shouting things at me.

It used to go home in tears.

Later my mum found out that this girl used to go to her grandmas after school as she lived on the same road as one of her friends. My mums friend said she had a horrible time at home and that's why she lived with her grandma.

Never excused it but it clearly just made her feel better to make me feel miserable.

I also remember a very interesting thread on here about which was worse, to be the parent of the bully or the one who was being bullied.

I'd like to know what's going on in the head of the child who has been bullying my ds.
It started in reception year. Mostly pushing him over, kicking etc. I saw it happen after school in the playground, he cornered my son on the play equipment and just started kicking him. I had to shout to get him to stop.
I reported it straight away. The mother of the bully then reported ME for scaring her child.
School have been excellent. They've been very firm, if he doesn't behave himself then he doesn't get to go outside to play. Every time they relax and let him out without 1to 1 supervision, he goes for someone and my son is his victim of choice. Latest incident was kicking him hard in the back when my son had just got his lunch tray, causing him to drop it.
The mother has bitched about me in the playground, several people who used to talk to me no longer do and stay with her. She is also turning it all into a pity party about how unfair it is on her own son not getting proper playtime etc etc.
My sympathy for him is all gone. I'll never forget the look of glee on his face as he was kicking my son. This was a 4 year old, enjoying making another child cry.
Nature or nurture I don't care any more. They start year 2 in September and I have decided that I have had enough. One more violent episode against my son and I'm going to start getting official about it.
I haven't time for bullies. I was bullied constantly in secondary school. Wrecked my self confidence. I was bullied at home by my older siblings and I didn't take it out on other children.

I became an occasional bully at secondary school (I am not using occasional as any cop out), I was also part of a group of nasty girls who would always be falling out with each other and being horrid.
I hate to say my reasons as that sounds like a bullshit cop out as there is no reason that makes it acceptable, were I was assaulted (cant even now type the word), I hated myself, I felt dirty and disgusting, I felt everyone else could see.
I am absolutely aware that others do have the same experience and don't react in the way I did, and that I could have made others who were going through hard times, lives worse.
My behavior was evil, but I was not as a person, and am not now.
Its not a topic I shy away from in real life, I am honest with friends about my behaviors during this period.

BrainSaysNo thank you for sharing. I am very sorry for what happened to you.

I do feel bullying should be explored to Sr if there is any form of abuse or experience driving it for the sake of the target and the bully.

See not Sr

I think it's usually insecurity, they lash out at others to distract their peers (and themselves) from their own inadequacies.

OP I'm sorry you had such a rough time at school, it's clearly had an impact and you're still feeling the effects slightly even now. Would you ever consider talking it through with someone?

I honestly haven't got a clue why people bully. I've had it my entire life.
Secondary school was horrendous I had zero friends I was constantly picked on and even the teachers didn't believe me. I remember sitting it English once when I was 13 and a new song had come out and the words were changed to make it all about me how I was ugly, fat, flat chested etc etc.
They had 2 verses and a chorus. The teacher heard it all and did nothing.
I've also been bullied at work. I think this had got to be the worst. As an adult you know it's nothing to do with you but all the insecurities come flooding back.
Massive hug for anyone whose been affected by bullying

Thank you Italiangreyhound, it feels odd sharing the background as there are only 2 people who know about that in real life.
Unfortunately I am unable to change my past, and that of those effected by my behavior.

Bluelonerose am so sorry. Did you leave work because of bullying? If so you could sue for constructive dismissal but only within a certain time frame and you need proof.

I think if you can get counselling for this, and assertiveness training in some form it could help you.

Xx

BrainSaysNo have you had my counselling? I do feel for some things it can help.