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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that if you haven't booked a seat on a busy train

285 replies

MrsSchadenfreude · 26/08/2017 10:29

You don't stand huffing loudly about young people having no manners and children should be sitting on their parents' laps, and leaning heavily on people who have reserved seats? Train to Cornwall, Bank Holiday weekend, was never going to be empty.

OP posts:
grannytomine · 29/08/2017 12:50

Where I live alot of stations have short platforms, they tell you when you are getting on that if you want to get off at Y station you need to sit in coach a b or c (or whatever) and on the train they give warnings before the stations that if you want to get off you need to go to coach a b or c. It never seems to be a problem.

grannytomine · 29/08/2017 12:54

Contrary to what some people think, age doesn't offer anybody dibs on seats It does offer an automatic discount or even a free ride if you are young enough. Maybe everyone should start paying the same fare, including children.

IncyWincyGrownUp · 29/08/2017 12:58

My middle child has a pass to travel free locally granny, but I would still pay for reservations for him, and still not make him give his seat up.

He doesn't give his seat up on the bus either, for which he also has a free pass. Neither does my youngest, but then seeing as he uses a special needs pushchair I doubt many adults would be capable of sitting in his spot.

I don't care how much travel costs. I'll pay full price if necessary. Have done, several times. My children stand for nobody. You will not win this one.

merrygoround51 · 29/08/2017 13:00

Notwithstanding the fact that it makes sense to book seats in advance, I would not have the bad manners to allow pensioners to stand whilst me and my children sat. I would suggest that the pensioners take our seats and that we rotate the remaining seat.

It is important to impart a spirit of good manners and decency to your children

grannytomine · 29/08/2017 13:02

My service wouldn't run without commuters like me paying £5k per year. It would be nice not to be given the worst service because I'm a captive market with no choice over how I travel. I feel for you, I've never commuted by train but you seem to get a really bad deal.

BoysofMelody · 29/08/2017 13:02

and on the train they give warnings before the stations that if you want to get off you need to go to coach a b or c. It never seems to be a problem.

On more lightly used services no it doesn't cause a problem for the occasional station on the route. if it doesn't foul the points. That's a big if by the way!

But you can imagine the pandemonium of a rush hour train tried to decant 12 cars worth of passenger tried to squeeze out of the doors in six cars. It would take forever to load and unload, meaning longer platform dwell times, longer journeys and a lower frequency of service.

grannytomine · 29/08/2017 13:05

You will not win this one. I wouldn't worry about that, I would hate to go through life with your attitude, if you think having that sort of attitude makes you a winner then I will just smile as I usually do to rude people.

I do hope they start charging a flat rate, fairness for people like the commuters paying thousands would be well worth it.

Gromance02 · 29/08/2017 13:06

I agree with a pp that said that many trains wouldn't run if it weren't for regular commuters as it just wouldn't be financially viable. So it is a shame that they can't reserve a seat.

grannytomine · 29/08/2017 13:06

Not lightly used trains and plenty of commuters going into the local city where the playforms are long enough. People just seem to have the ability to get into the right carriages.

BoysofMelody · 29/08/2017 13:19

Where is this granny? I've never come across a busy commuter line where the announcements take the form of

If you're traveling to A travel in the first three carriages
If you're traveling to Be travel in the first four carriages
If you're traveling to C travel in the first six carriages

Forrge numbers of stops on the route. The occasional small or infrequently served station, yes.

Also as I said up thread, another significant issue is the train fouling the points at a station, by overhanging the platform.

JassyRadlett · 29/08/2017 13:20

Hypothetically what are you supposed to do if you are disabled and unable to stand, but your train ticket didn't come with a seat reservation?

What I did when pregnant and ill as a result was that I asked nicely, and still do when a chronic health condition makes standing difficult/risky.

Some people refused, some didn't. But I wouldn't have dreamed of just taking someone else's reserved seat and refusing to move.

Apart from it being rude, I don't know their story and if I'm travelling without a reservation for whatever reason, the onus is on me to explain why I need one, and ask someone nicely to move.

JassyRadlett · 29/08/2017 13:25

Not lightly used trains and plenty of commuters going into the local city where the playforms are long enough. People just seem to have the ability to get into the right carriages.

So are they local trains with no reservations? We have that on commuter services due to short platforms at one or two stations but it's quite different from a train with reserved seats where they've put on an extra few carriages (if even possible and available) because demand was high, but then the seat reservations didn't align with platform availability and luggage, etc, had to be dragged through the busy train to be able to disembark.

Threenme · 29/08/2017 13:25

I am really surprised at the number of people that wouldn't give up their seat pre- booked or not to someone elderly. I genuinely thought this was a given courtesy. I was taught it and I've taught it my kids.

EBearhug · 29/08/2017 13:30

If you're traveling to A travel in the first three carriages
If you're traveling to Be travel in the first four carriages
If you're traveling to C travel in the first six carriages

Waterloo to Exeter. The train splits at Salisbury, possibly depending on time of day.

Waterloo to Weymouth - there are a few four-car platforms, though not all trains stop at those. Quite often trains split at Bournemouth or Poole to go on to Wareham, Dorchester and Weymouth. I think there's one down to Portsmouth which splits at some point and goes two different directions.

It's usually only the front four and rear four carriages, though.

BoysofMelody · 29/08/2017 13:34

EB trains do split en route, but that's a one off event and different to selective door opening at many stations on a busy commuter lines due to a hotchpotch of platform lengths that granny described.

EBearhug · 29/08/2017 13:36

A year or two (or possibly more) ago, I heard a R4 programme about rolling stock. Might have been Face the Facts or something similar. It was talking about how line X would get line Y's rolling stock, when Y has got the new stock being built, but behind schedule, and then line Z would get some of Line X's and some from elsewhere... I don't remember the details, but it was sort of fascinating how things were all interconnected (despite all the separate train companies,) and there's no incentive for long-term investment. It all seems quite mad.

RidingMyBike · 29/08/2017 13:36

Waterloo to Windsor - you have to be in certain carriages to get off at the three stations before Windsor.

ShotsFired · 29/08/2017 13:36

Gromance02 I agree with a pp that said that many trains wouldn't run if it weren't for regular commuters as it just wouldn't be financially viable. So it is a shame that they can't reserve a seat.

I have definitely read something not long ago where a season ticket holder was talking about their spreadsheet that they send to the train co every so often to re-confirm their seat reservation. It was something to do with the annoying frequency of having to do so, as they couldn't just pick a seat that was valid for the whole term as the ticket. But they did it as it meant they got a reserved seat every day.

So some train companies do do it with season tickets. I bet all of them CAN if they want to, they just know they have a captive market so don't bother.

Or maybe they could at least ringfence x seats as "unreservable" which is equivalent to the season ticket holders on that service - they have enough ticket gate data to know this stuff.

TheySayIamparanoid · 29/08/2017 13:47

Ha ha @Brahumbug, I like to think that I'd have the guts to do that!

Original poster
MrsSchadenfreude · 29/08/2017 18:08

Obviously I would give up my seat for a doddery 80something, but someone in their 60s in hiking gear? No.

To the person whose children will stand for no-one, on London Teansport, children's Oyster cards come with a code of conduct, that says they must give up their seat if someone needs it more (it may even be for a full fare paying passenger). And I've seen bus drivers enforce this rule when the bus is busy.

OP posts:
AuditAngel · 29/08/2017 23:45

MrsSchedenfreude you are absolutely correct regarding children's Oyster cards conduct code. We had an issue where an ok'd woman (you'll note I don't say lady) snacked DS telling him to give up his seat for someone, ignoring all the schoolgirls around her. We reported the assault to the police.

DS would have given up his seat, but was chatting to his friend and hadn't seen the (other) lady get on to the bus.

When the police came to take statements, they discussed the Oystercard conduct code with DS.

riceuten · 29/08/2017 23:58

How do you know that they were not there but perhaps were too intimidated or shy about asking you to move?

Because people looking for seat numbers have a very specific way of walking down the carriage, and I always leap up and say "Am I sitting in your seat?" when someone does so. It rarely, if ever, is answered in the positive

BoomBoomsCousin · 30/08/2017 01:19

While it is true that many trains simply wouldn't run without commuters, commuters also receive the heaviest subsidy from the government (because they are using trains so much). So while at any given point it seems unfair to be shelling out thousands an not getting a seat, those thousands entitle a commuter to get on the train (normally any train) day in and day out. Which is a lot more than a cheapo discounted ticket, even with a reservation, does.

sashh · 30/08/2017 02:54

Actually Virgin West Cost is working on removing reservations from the cheap advance seats. It's not fair that someone who paid £24 for their ticket can reserve but someone who paid 124 can't.

It's the discrepancy in the fares that is the fault.

Just to add a note about it being older fit people, if you have a bus pass you can sometimes travel for free on trains within an area. You don't have the option of booking a seat with a bus pass.

If you take a longer journey eg if I'm heading for London I can travel free to Birmingham and then pay the Birmingham - London portion, if I manage to book a seat it will only be for the second portion of my journey and if I'm on the Edinburgh to London train someone else may have that seat reserved from Edinburgh to Birmingham.

Top tip for when Virgin (as they regularly do) say 'no reserved seats' o there is an announcement that the reservation system has gone down. If you have a reserved seat the staff have to find you a seat, even if it is in first class.

thismumismad · 30/08/2017 06:45

Oh YANBU. I once had a journey ruined with a poorly child on our way to a family funeral. Got to our reserved seats but the computers had reset when the train was coupled so no reservation was showing, but the seat reservation was on our tickets. There was a family in our seats who refused to move even when shown our tickets. Train manager couldn't get those fuckers to move even though is said my son wasn't well (throat infection). They were told to be ejected from the train if they didn't move by the next stop but that was 2.5 hours away.