ExH and Daughters phone.

[Whatjusthappenedexactly]

I need to know if IABU. DD14 is very upset.
Been divorced 3 years. Acrimonious despite my best efforts for it not to be. I have honestly tried to keep the peace because I was the one who left . If it's relivant, DD lives with Dad term time due to schooling. She comes to us EOW and 3/4 of the school holidays. I have dinner with her weekly. I pay maintenance via the CMO because after the split he realised he could demand it any way despite a massive pay difference between me and EXH ( me less than him). He pays for her phone.

When she comes to my new home all is well apart from the texts she receives from her Dad.

Firstly, I have no access to her phone as it's a finger print entry. She is under strict instruction not to tell me the number pass lock. That in itself has caused grief but in the end I have let it go.

Her younger brother's phone can be unlocked without a finger print and he's told me the code. ExH has a history of texting offensive remarks about me that cause a lot of upset. I got into the habit of not looking any more as I only got upset and then the whole house suffered. However, tonight, my DS showed me a remark about me which upset him. I promptly asked to see DD phone and after many tears and protests she accessed it for me. The insults about me, my chosen activitities, our dogs names offensively misspelt were multiple. DD never pulls him up but in her defence she never agrees, just ignores and answers politely.
I had to leave ExH because of his bullying so these texts feel like bullying all over again. I'm also having problems with DD attitude toward me which could be age related, but I do hear my ExH in a lot of what she says. I'm now left wondering if it's these texts that makes her believe she can say what she likes to undermine me.

Additionally, when ExH telephones at night the atmosphere goes dark. We can tell from the children's answeres he's interrogating them and not really interested in what they have done that may be good. We can hear questions from him regarding meal times, bed times, activity levels , TV watching. If they give an answer that can't be picked apart he moves them on and picks on something else. For example, my Dad is terminally ill so we drive a fair distance a few times a week to see him. I combine this trip with a chance to see the children's friends but he's very critical of the bed times and lengthy car journeys. This is just one example. I'm left with the same feeling I had when we were married, that I can't do anything right. If it's relivent I spend every waking moment with the children when they are with us. We swim, walk, beach, bake I even Pokémon hunt because it's the best form of exercise we can get my son to engage in but ExH is really horrible about this to both the children as he seems to have something against it. DS is overweight so as far as I'm concerned if it gets him walking who cares if it's catching Pokémon.

Anyhow, I cracked tonight after seeing a text that called me rude and stupid... texted directly to the children over a pick up time by me where I was accused of being late ( I wasn't late ). I've told my DD no more privacy with regard to her phone. I want to see every text conversation with her Dad.

I've also texted my ExH and told him the insults have to stop or the phones will be confiscated. I wouldn't stop him from calling the children obviously but he'd have to go through my phone.

The problem with this is he will reciprocate when the children leave me and talking to them will become impossible.

My own DH has already threatened to take the children's phone away because of the upset. Honestly, when ExH is on the phone you can cut the atmosphere with a knife.

I have totally lost it tonight. For me, it's as though my ExH has a direct line into my new home to press my buttons and upset me. It took a lot for me to leave him and he's still getting into my home and head despite my best efforts.

If I remove the phone completely he will do the same when they are with him. If I continue to allow his texts into the home I'm not free of him. It's causing upset between myself the children and DH as the tension is ridiculous.

We have been to court once and I asked that a clause was put in place to try and prevent these types of texts. It was put in the order that neither of us would disparage the other ( I wasn't but that was the wording regardless). He's breaking the order but while my Dad is so ill I can't face going back to court. I will have to gobback eventually as he won't let me have the children's pass ports or change a few other minor details.

Until then what do I do about the phones.m? I've texted him tonight asking for him to stop. Pointed out it's upsetting our children but it's been going on for 3 years so it's unlikely to change.

AIBU to expect my DD14 to make him put an end to it or take away the phones. DS wouldn't miss his phone but DD will see it as the end of the world.

I feel like the bully of a man is back in my home and I can't cope. Hoping no one suggests I ignore as I have tried for a year but it's still coming and I can't ignore it any more. Not when I try so hard to be a good parent and my Dad is so ill. Having every action undermined by his nasty comments has worn me away again.

My mother left our abisive dad - we lived in a council estate were cold and hungry sometimes secondhand clothes s

We were a bloody happier than any material goods etc could give us

You have strange priorities

I'd really love for all these people saying 'abusive dad' to be a little more specific about that.

Read the actual thread, not what you think is there please. If it helps, switch 'mum' with 'dad'.

if the OP is being strictly accurate about everything he is lying to his children and actually telling them she was late when she was on time, which they know, so he's actually gaslighting them. He's telling them his mother is worthless.

That's abuse and yes if it's all true they deserve better.

Op maintenance was mentioned by you in your op without any context. You brought it up so it wasn't off topic.

NRps often find a way to get out of payment and still say their partner is bad mouthing them, it was obviously going to be brought up

it's as though my ExH has a direct line into my new home to press my buttons and upset me. It took a lot for me to leave him and he's still getting into my home and head despite my best efforts.

OP I just wanted to pick up on this line too (I forgot earlier). I completely sympathise and it must be driving you mad. However he doesn't have a line into your new home unless you open it up by reading your children's phones- don't give him that satisfaction by reading his texts. Those texts aren't to you. He can't get to you. Take back control

Can I just say my ExH was a low grade bully to me and only me. No way would I have sat down and discussed then followed through a living arrangement that left them with an abuse

But they are being bullied by him, they are being abused. And you seem only concerned about how you feel about the messages, and not on the damage he is doing to them?

I think you would claim your kids back and either move near their school or move to a new school

'Claim' they aren't possessions.

I pay maintenance via the CMO because after the split he realised he could demand it any way despite a massive pay difference between me and EXH ( me less than him).

Absolutely makes no difference who earns the highest. Women are encouraged to claim as the money is for the DC even if they are the highest earner or in new relationships with very good lifestyles. Why is it different just because the primary carer is male?

FFS. I do think OP is well aware of how damaging one parent slagging off the other is. But is her swanning in and demanding full custody going to improve that? Of course not, because that would effectively be a huge declaration from her that their dad was an 'abusive father', so would just flip the tables. How on Earth does that improve their situation? The problem is not their living arrangements, it is the relationship between the parents.

OP is the only person in this thread with all the facts. She knows why she left, she knows why she chose to leave the children, she knows why they spend the majority of the time with their father. With the greatest of respect, people on the internet with a very small snippet of the story have no clue what the specific circumstances are, and if the OP says that living with dad is best for them, I really cannot understand why so many people are very rudely telling her that she is failing her children by leaving them with such an abusive monster.

I really do hate to say it but it smacks so much of the false idea that children are best off with their mothers. People are so uncomfortable with the idea of fathers being the primary carers- surely society has moved on?

Give her a break please.

OP, I would second getting this thread moved to Relationships, where you will find posters with a good deal of experience in dealing with people like your exH.

I agree with comments that he is not a good parent. He may be a good parent when he is in total control and getting his own way, but his own actions have shown that outside these conditions he is not capable of putting his children’s interests first. You may baulk at the terms “bullying” or “abuse” to describe his behaviour towards your DC when they are with you, but think of it this way – he is trying to dictate how they feel when they are with you, trying to manipulate them so that they don’t enjoy spending time with you. Doesn’t that type of controlling behaviour sound abusive? It may not be primarily directed at the DCs, but he certainly doesn't seem to care if it affects them (in fact the point of the behaviour is to influence them as well as upset you).

You can’t expect your children to influence your exH’s behaviour any more than you can. I suspect he wouldn’t respond to an appeal from you to act in the children’s best interests, simply because he won’t want to be seen as “giving in” to you in any way.

I wouldn’t take their phones away/swap SIMs/block his number. He will use that as the green light to do the same to you when they go back to his house. My approach would be to try to give your children the tools to see his behaviour for what it is, and to develop strategies for minimising the emotional impact it has on them. Your DD’s polite responses to his critical texts are a start, as she is ignoring what he says and not engaging with him, but this way of dealing with it doesn’t provide her with any way of dealing with her emotional reaction to his texts.

You might find some of the following helpful to try (if you haven’t already):

• Have a calm but honest discussion with your DC about the way that their dad’s texts make them feel. Explore and acknowledge their feelings about it. Do they feel upset, caught in the middle? Are they angry with their dad? Are they angry with you because they feel that they wouldn’t have to read these texts if you hadn’t left him? Do they want to defend you to him but are worried about upsetting him and having his displeasure directed at them? Get their feelings out in the open, create a calm channel of communication about how his behaviour makes them feel.
• Name his behaviour, without being critical – “Dad likes to be in charge of how things are run, and when he’s not he feels out of control. Criticising me is his way of feeling in control again. Maybe he’s even jealous of me getting spend time with you.” It is incredibly helpful for children to learn to identify and understand manipulative behaviours. I once had a conversation with my (then primary-aged) DS to explain how guilt-tripping worked after my H tried this on him – 2 years later he still talks about what an eye-opener that conversation was.
• Talk to them about choices. Your exH chooses to behave like this, no-one makes him. You and your DC have a choice about how you respond to his behaviour. Your reaction of getting upset doesn’t work. Your DD’s polite text responses won’t work in the long run either – she just learns that people like this get to behave how they like and she just has to remain silent and put up with it.
• Help them with strategies to deal with his phone calls so that they don’t get sucked into accounting for every aspect of their time with you. Non-committal responses and deflecting the questions back to him might work – “What did we have for lunch? I can’t remember, something nice. What did you have for lunch, Dad?” “How long were we in the car today? I didn’t pay attention, I was too busy listening to music. What did you do today, Dad?”

I'm not pretending the above is easy - for example, your DC might be reluctant to talk about how their dad's behaviour makes them feel. But sadly I don't think that simply ignoring the situation and hoping he will eventually decide to be less acrimonious is going to achieve much. You can't change his behaviour, but you can change the way you react to it.

Get their feelings out in the open, create a calm channel of communication about how his behaviour makes them feel.

Yes a good idea.

However be careful with this. If you ask leading questions such as Do they want to defend you to him but are worried about upsetting him and having his displeasure directed at them? you are going ime to get answers they think you want to hear rather than what they actually feel.

With the greatest of respect, people on the internet with a very small snippet of the story have no clue what the specific circumstances are, and if the OP says that living with dad is best for them, I really cannot understand why so many people are very rudely telling her that she is failing her children

I also agree with this to a degree.

As a society we seem to always question more when DC live with their DF rather than DM. We get questions now about why DSC live with us and not their 'D'M. My DH has even been asked if he abducted them

In our case their 'D'M wants nothing to do with them. Has indirect court ordered contact yet can't even be bothered with that.

Of course not, because that would effectively be a huge declaration from her that their dad was an 'abusive father', so would just flip the tables

Telling an abusive parent they are abusive when they're being abusive is ok.

Telling your children the other parent is a bad parent when they are not a bad parent is not ok. It's super easy to get your head around if you're paying attention.

CatsAreAssholes That's not a representative summary of what's actually happened.

• Two parents have had a messy divorce.
• Dad is main carer for children.
• Dad says unpleasant things about mum to children.
• Mum quite possibly has also said less than pleasant things at some point at least.
• Children feel torn between the two.

Let's try this:

Dad says mum is rude and late. This offends mum, and children are dragged into it. Mum has courts remove children from him because dad said mum was late and rude. Children now live with the parent they originally decided was not well placed to look after them.

Does that really sound sensible?

Or we can try this:

Mum said dad was rude and late. This offends dad, and children are dragged into it. Dad has courts remove children from her because mum said dad was late and rude. Children now live with the parent they originally decided was not well placed to look after them.

Now do you see how that's not a good solution?

Piglet, I wasn't thinking in terms of the OP asking her DC those questions directly, more that these were possible scenarios to bear in mind when discussing this. I didn't make that distinction clear - apologies.

OP- forgive the over simplification, I completely understand there are many more levels to it- just trying to summarise the key facts that we internet strangers have to emphasise how irresponsible it is for people to say that you are doing the wrong thing to allow them to live with him.

I don't agree that someone can be a wonderful parent if they say awful things about the other parent. If the texted insults make you feel sick, they will have a similar effect on the kids. The children come from both of you and when he attacks you, he is attacking a part of them. And that may result in the children trying to protect themselves by copying him and treating you badly. That is a known behaviour of emotionally abused children/teens. It's a form of self-defence. Just hang in there, show then a positive role model and know that his control over all of you will fade with every passing year.

InvisibleCities I completely agree- wonderful parents do not slag off the other parent. Dad is definitely not a wonderful parent. He is upsetting the children and putting them in a horrible position. OP has partially contributed to putting them in that awful position.

However... many people are jumping from that to the conclusion that OP must rescue her children from the abusive beast, and how dare she consider leaving them with him a moment longer?

OP has a lot more sense fortunately and is not planning on removing them from him.

Children should not be encouraged to take sides. They should, whenever possible, be able to believe that their parents are the superheroes they grew up believing them to be. When parents divorce they divorce each other but the children are still firmly attached to both parents and it is really important not to let the parents' disagreements leak into the children's relationships. It places an unfair burden on them.

Mum quite possibly has also said less than pleasant things at some point at least.

perper, that is an assumption that you are making to justify your position.

The OP is not having an offended strop over some imagined slight. She wants to defend herself against what she sees as unfair attacks from her exH - entirely understandable, it's a natural reaction to defend oneself against unfair criticism.

But in the OP's situation defending herself is not a useful response, because:

• it legitimises the exH's comments as rational and in need of refuting
• he is not going to respond reasonably to her defence and accept it is valid and stop attacking her.

One point, based on what I saw in my family with my half siblings. Tell your DC that whatever the reason your ex is saying what he is saying and no matter how you feel about it, they never have to choose between you or take sides.

I would say to them that your ex's texts are a reflection of issues between the two of you and nothing to do with either child. They are not responsible for them and you are unhappythat they are being caught up in this. The fact that they are receiving these texts does not alter how you feel about them.

I have seen the damage it causes when one parent snipes continually at the other and the DC feel like they have to take sides.

God, it's one of these again. "He's actually a good father, a great role model, he's loving, he's great with the kids" - errr... he bombards his kids with abusive text messages about their mother! That's not being a good role model, it's not being a good father, and it WILL mess them up in the long term. I guarantee it. That is not a way to show love to your children or to raise them well.

I really don't understand this downplaying of the way he is talking to the kids about the mother. It is abuse plain and simple and they are going to be very damaged by it. The father is not a good parent because of this. Nothing to do with how the OP feels about it or the way she was treated by him in the past. What a burden for those poor children to have.

I have experienced this first hand and one of my children lived with the father with this going on, mobile phones, emails, etc. You cannot underestimate the damage that it can cause to children's mental health.

One point, based on what I saw in my family with my half siblings. Tell your DC that whatever the reason your ex is saying what he is saying and no matter how you feel about it, they never have to choose between you or take sides.

I would say to them that your ex's texts are a reflection of issues between the two of you and nothing to do with either child. They are not responsible for them and you are unhappythat they are being caught up in this. The fact that they are receiving these texts does not alter how you feel about them.

I have seen the damage it causes when one parent snipes continually at the other and the DC feel like they have to take sides.

This, a million times.

Peeper I don't understand why your adding your own side to the story? Sure yes, if you make it up as you go along then that's correct, but I'm going to base it on the OP being that's she's there if it's all the same to you?

I think you need to have a conversation with both your children..

I would tell them DD in particular it must be difficult for them , Tell them you are no longer marries and so his opinion of you doesn't matter to you.

Tell them they are doing the best they can.. Tell them you will support them if they need to ... and do that..

CatsAreAssholes I'm going to base it on the OP being that's she's there if it's all the same to you?

Sounds perfect to me (as you can see, I've been asking for that for a while now...)- that way we can ignore all the people telling her that she needs to remove her children from the evil abuser etc. etc., since she is the only one with all the information and has refuted this repeatedly

Although it may have been posted and there are other helpful posts

I do think that you need to stop thinking of your DD as an adult, It is not her job to referee your and your ex's relationship.

And your DH needs to stop the rubbish about taking their phones away.

I'm not sure about yours, but my DC use their phones for Instagram, Snapchat, You Tube, WhatsApp mostly (and almost never actually phone or text on them...I am the only contact they text instead of 'Snapchatting')

Could they have iPads that they log in to their social media accounts on at your house (leaving their phones with you at the weekend)?