to think this about UK punting

[equitation]

All middle aged balding men trying to have sex with 18 year olds? I have an 18 year old DD and I find it gross. How can this be allowed to go on?

Actually - men feel less confident largely because of how they're viewed by other men. It's a toxic masculinity problem. ;)

Spot on

@Indigo911 yes it is absolutely disgusting. No arguments there. Those punters would probably not be welcomed back for another session. Lots of blacklists and chatter between sexworkers exist to keep folks like that visiting them to a minimum. There are always going to be horror stories though.

You can certainly be a feminist and be supportive of sex workers.
Women have the right to do whatever they want with their bodies, including use them to make money.
However, sex work doesn't happen in a cultural vacuum. Those women who are fine with it and simply find it an easy way to make money, great. I'm not bothered.
But there are huge numbers of women who are doing it because they don't have other options and that I have a massive problem with. They are also the ones who aren't in a position to turn down the punters who treat them roughly or who don't wash or refuse to wear a condom. They're the ones who hate every minute but have to smile and fake it if they want to eat and pay their rent.
Those women need our support, and not judgement from anyone.
As for the men who use sex workers (And the key word is 'use'), I judge every single one of them. Anyone who uses someone else's body knowing that person probably wouldn't want it if it weren't paid for, is a self-absorbed and selfish human being.
Yes, they may be sad and lonely or just want connection, but they're still using another human for their own satisfaction.
And I very much doubt if even 1% of punters take the time to try and find out whether the sex worker is genuinely happy doing what they do and not trafficked. I'm guessing most turn up, use, and go. Just vile.

There is a post on SAAFE with over 500 comments on it from the sex workers saying they aren’t getting enough bookings and are struggling to pay rent and feed themselves. They will probably feel like they have to accept any booking that comes their way and grin and bear it to avoid having a vile review written about them on ukpunting. I think it used to be a lucrative industry, but there are so many women having to do it now and not a steady enough stream of punters for every single one of them

BattleCunt, it's not about whether I approve, i just can't see what's erotic about being with someone you know has no desire for you, to me that does seem sad and pathetic yes.

As for the issue of disabled men I agree with Sporadic, it's patronising (and a little insulting tbh) to assume sex workers are their only option. All my posts have been specifically about men who use punting sites (because that's what this thread is about) and they do seem to be almost exclusively older, usually married men. None of them fit your descriptions of those people who might 'need' to visit a sex worker and the way they speak about the SW makes it clear they're not visiting because they're pining away through lack of 'intimacy', have you actually read some of the threads on there?

But I come back to the same thing, sex is neither a need nor a right. Plenty of people find ways of dealing with going without sex (for all sorts of reasons) without resorting to SW and perpetuating the myth that (some) men have some sort of undeniable need helps no one frankly.

@Hidingtonothing nobody said it was a disabled man's only option to see a sexworker, but it IS an option for many. I'm a disabled person myself, and during my time working as a pro domina, I saw a number of disabled clients. I'm not speaking out of inexperience here.

@Indigo911 we are fast approaching the worst time of year for sexworkers; the January lull. Folks have understandably spent all their money on Christmas and the new year celebrations, and so until the end of January, it will be slim pickings for sexworkers across the board.

Of course it's hard for many regardless of the time of year, and yes sadly this does mean people take risks. For example, whenever we hear mutterings about banning full service sexwork in the UK, it terrifies sexworkers because it won't mean demand will stop, it just means it will go underground and sexworkers would have to take more risks to ensure custom. Sexworkers aren't allowed to work in groups in the same building for safety unfortunately as that constitutes as brothel, but the safety in numbers aspect would be so helpful. It's a massive warren of issues to be honest, and tons of people have ideas about what to do to fix it; but not many people want to listen to actual sexworkers, or the punters who treat them with respect, because regardless of what we see on the likes of UK Punting, there are a lot of wonderful clients out there.

I know this thread has probably been reported to death, but I hope Mumsnet lets it stay because right now we are having a civilised discussion, whereas a lot of the time these subjects turn into really nasty slanging matches.

No one said you were but the sort of circumstances you're talking about don't apply to the majority of men on punting sites. Frankly anyone who can speak about women the way they do on those sites shouldn't be anywhere near one, SW or otherwise.

I'm such a sheltered bloom. I clicked on this thread wondering why an East Anglian boating activity was being discussed on Mumsnet.

I definitely don’t think it should be made illegal in this country. It’s illegal in America (and many other countries) and lots of sex workers end up getting mustered/abused/trafficked etc and they terrified to speak out because they’ll be sent to prison.
I’m sure there are lovely clients out there who treat sex workers with respect and don’t push boundaries with them. But what about their wives who probably have absolutely no idea what their husbands are getting up to? It could send them to the brink of a serious mental break down if they found out.

But there are huge numbers of women who are doing it because they don't have other options and that I have a massive problem with.

The truth is that a lot of women sexworkers who present it as their own free career choice will, in truth, be putting a brace face on the fact that they don't have other options.

If we had enforceable child support (even from self employed fathers), truly equal pay and a functional welfare state, the push factor would be much weaker.

There are also many people - not just women who are working jobs they are desperate not to be working, just to make ends meet. Jobs that most folks don't want to do, but they need to be done regardless, especially ones where they have to be 💯 nice all the time for bugger all pay and zero thanks. The fast food industry is one, and other low paid service sector jobs.

Whisky6

Omg I can't believe you think a woman's nipples going stiff means that she's turned on, are you for real?! Just like men's penises can go hard whilst sitting on the bus then it's the same type of thing for a woman's nipples, jeez, body parts have a mind of their own!

No woman becomes a pro because she 'likes' the sex, if they liked sex that much then why would they charge?! It's a fantasy at the end of the day and you don't/can't accept this because you don't want to admit to yourself that escorts only went with you because you paid them.

At the next of the day, if all sex workers won the lottery tomorrow then how many would continue to do that job?!...I'll let you think on that...

Scotschick

My penis doesn't go hard on the bus of its own accord.
The only time it goes hard on the bus is when a hot girl is on the bus . Or when I've been on the bus on route to the punt, and thinking about who I was going to see.

All jobs you do for money. And people often enjoy parts of their job, even if they wouldn't do them except for the money. Earlier in the thread several MNetters mentioned negative threads on SAAFE about dirty-arsed punters and so on. But it seems selective amnesia sets in when it comes to recall of the SAAFE posts mentioning getting an orgasm during working hours from clients.
To re- reiterate, I did say in my post to start with I didn't think it was anything personal, (to do with me) if the prostitute got aroused. (One of the posts on SAAFE I read said it was just good technique not the ugly punter in question. )

Suppose Ms. X isn't on the game, and is working as hotel cleaner instead. How do you feel about her being forced, by needing the money, to work a badly paid stressful ,and tiring job?. If you book a room in a hotel (which no one needs to do, as they could go camping) don't you feel guilty? If you thank the maid for cleaning your room and she says "my pleasure" , do you think it really was her pleasure? Maybe some women go into escorting because they prefer it to hotel work.

Anyway zero punts this year

Only ten more punt free months and you will have had your first year of exploitation free sex Whisky

FannyWisdom
I suppose there's always dating (it's not illegal.)

I thought this was going to be a post about what people do on rivers in Cambridge ...

Baby steps lad, baby steps.

You need to be completely rid of the punting and associated thinking before dating.
No one wants to date a punter.

Heading in the right direction though, keep it up

"Some women choose to accept money for sex." Very very few women CHOOSE to be sex workers - they do it out of financial necessity, under physical threat from pimps, to feed addiction, because they think they're not worthy of anything better, out of a compulsion to repeat patterns of abuse experienced in childhood.

The men who use them are to my mind rapists because coerced consent is NOT consent.

"What about someone who doesn't have time for a relationship but wants intimate contact? Why shouldn't they enter into a mutual transaction for intimacy as long as both parties are happy with it? Why does that make them sad or pathetic?" There are plenty of casual sex sites that don't involve prostitution. They welcome the disabled too. I have several disabled friends and they never seem to struggle meeting people for dating or sex.

UK punting is an incredibly self-satisfied and unrepresentative site. Working girls can have their reputation amongst their clientele trashed by dissatisfied men with no comeback at all.

The wider debate on prostitution should not be drawn into consideration of this particular site.

Yes, many working girls are doing it because they see no other choice or at the very least they see no other choice that pays anything like the same amount.

In the provinces middle managers earn perhaps £35k per annum. At £150 per hour a working girl can earn that in 6 weeks at (37.5 hours per week) and it's tax free.

I abhor the practice of people traffickng and the enforced prostitution that goes with it so a fully licensed and legal sex industry would make the girls safer, would allow police to concentrate resources on those being trafficked and would remove the stigma from both sex workers and clients. It is not known as the oldest profession for no reason. Since it cannot be wiped out however much "right thinking" people believe it should be, let us at least bring it in from the cold.

Finally I cannot be the only man whose post-menopausal wife has lost both the ability and any interest in sex. My choices were to similarly abstain, or to coerce my wife, both of which I regard as unacceptable or to consort with independent British "escorts" or acquire a mistress. I prefer the escort solution as it has the lower impact on my domestic life. I don't use my real name with working girls and the cost is far lower than maintaining a mistress and the money comes out of my own private pension income and is easily affordable. So there are people out there who have had long monogamous marriages, highly successful careers and who are pillars of the community but still see prostitutes.

My argument against the accusation of infidelity is that one has to have something to which to be faithful. You cannot betray what you don't have.

I assume we are all ok with selling our kidneys are we? Why not. Your body to do with what you like. It's not like such arrangements disproportionally affect the most vulnerable in our society is it.

By insulting the guys using these services you are insulting the women choosing to do that job.

Totally different Whisky and you know it, hotel maids aren’t being fingered, licked, groped, getting offensive comments thrown at them because they’re hookers

UKP made it to Truspilot, Members exmembers commenting in droves.
It’s nice to see there are some nice men that were members.