In thinking friendship with childless friends most often change for the worst?

[heyhosilverballs]

I'll preface this with saying that I do have a couple of friends with whom things have remained ok. (Interestingly they've both worked a lot with kids though.)

Bar those two I've become distanced or fallen out with all of my friends who've not been able to or haven't wanted kids.

I had one friend come and stay for a month just after ds was born, a best friend. It was a disaster. She dislikes kids and clearly resented the time i was lavishing on ds (who was three months so still very needy) instead of her and became quite spiteful. The friendship collapsed. A couple of years later we tried to rekindle it but she still gets spiteful digs in and I'm over trying anymore.

Others friends have come and stayed and have been similarly annoyed at me not wanting to go out drinking until late etc.

I have an old friend staying now who've I've not seen in years. We used to go out partying a lot. She's being really impatient and snappy with ds (he's 3 so he can be a little irritating even to me as my pfb ). She's clearly annoyed at me paying him attention. He watched tv for 3 hours yesterday so we could chat and I got him to bed early. Today she's sat around being annoyed that I'm doing so much housework (I stuck a load of washing on as he got plastered in mud and peed himself) and have been making him and us breakfast lunch and tidying up after, nothing excessive.

She's constantly wanting to chat or do something and I'm trying to balance that with giving ds enough attention so he doesn't act up and wind her up even more thus making him even worse (the toddler and impatient person vicious cycle.)

Then I say ds is going for a nap and I'll try to nap too (she wanted to stay up until 2am drinking and ds was up at 5am so I'm really lagging.) Shes all of a sudden got a tremendous burst of energy and is slamming around the house for the last hour and a half.

I'm dreaded ds waking up and having to keep the pair of them both happy but apart. Ugh.

She wants to do long involved dinners and chats and that just isn't possible!

Someone tell me they can retain some old friendships without them thinking you're the most boring and rude fart ever and you being a half assed parent?

My childless friend has come for a few weeks each time I had a new baby and been a tremendous help plus we've still managed to have plenty of fun. I have about 5 who come to stay fairly regularly - they are like aunts to my children and tbh I think they want to see them as much as to see me! I think you may have friends who aren't "child people" more than simply don't have a child.

I'm 'the childless friend', and it's never been an issue.

I see my friends and their children at least fortnightly.

Next weekend we're all going out for my birthday & my friends are all getting babysitters. I do miss 'proper nights out' with them but I have other childless friends I see in the evenings.

I like to think I'm quite close to their children & I have babysat too.

I will say though that sometimes being the childless friend hurts because with your friends you are constantly reminded of what you may never have.

Friendships change when people have kids. Most people without kids prefer to be called child free, not childless (that implies that they are less of a person because they don't have kids)

It depends on the person and where you value them you can usually work past hiccups. That's not to say it can't be very difficult, especially if there are underlying issues as I've experienced when going on holiday with friend who had struggled to have kids but didnt in the end. She was very supportive of my parenthood usually but in that holiday she seemed to turn. In retrospect it was too much too soon, me with 1 and 3 yo sapping the life out of me and her deeply disappointed that I wasn't making enough effort to go out and get pissed every night! We're great now though.

I think your friend is the problem, not childless friends in general. Anyone staying for a month in a friend's house with a new baby is going to find it hard going. And I do understand as I live abroad so it's a very intense catch up for a week as you haven't seen them for ages rather than being able to meet someone for a coffee every few weeks with or without the baby.

I've had several friends come visit me since my 2 year old DS was born. It does change some things, but they've all been great. Happy to engage with him, read to him and play with him and understanding that I have to go put him to bed so I'll be busy for half an hour, or that we have to go to child centered things like the park or soft play rather then just doing stuff we enjoy. Or we have to make do with wine and a movie at home because we can't go out every single night.
However there is a balance and I always arrange some child free time during their visits. A couple of nights out and use his nursery time to do adult stuff. However he's not a tiny baby any more so it's easier to do that stuff and my DH is very hands on.

I was unable to have children and probably that changed me and my friends have changed as they have had children. Some friendships have lasted and others have fallen away, but I would not ever stay with anyone for more than three days. Guests like fish go off after three days.

YANBU. Your friends sound awful!

All my friends at least try with my DS, but then, I've never had them stay with me because our flat is far too small to accommodate visitors. If I am meeting with a dear friend who I've not seen in a long time, I would usually just leave my DS at home with his dad and go out to see them. I'd only bring my DS to gatherings if they specifically request for him to be present.

I think you have to be firmer. I've had childless friends to stay and it's been great, though not without teething problems.

Warn them before they stay that you won't be doing any late nights or non kid friendly outings.
If they want to chat and toddler wants your attention, say 'sorry I think he's getting bored, how about we go chat in the park/sandpit/play a game?'

Try to involve friend so they don't feel left out. Get them to read toddler a story or build with duplo or put his socks on. Give them the baby to hold. Have them push the pram or hold reins and be very appreciative.

I remember feeling very left out and awkward when I stayed with a friend with kids before I had my own. When she started giving me things to do I felt like part of the family and we rediscovered our closeness, I also built up a lasting bond with her DD.

I have to say I'd find it a bit weird if I was staying with a friend and they announced they were off to share a three year old's nap.

I think it's more the distance and the circumstances causing rifts than the 'childlessness' of your friends per se.

Living away from your friends causes a disconnect, and you're not really involved in each other's lives. Then having them to stay for intense periods is also hard, especially as they will be using holiday to essentially watch you go about your normal domestic routine. I would be bored by that even though I adore most of my friend's children, and will happily spend time with them.

If you'd knew they'd had three hours sleep you should be sending them off to nap, pigeon.

They are staying for too long, and when your dc is too young.
The ability to go out more/stay up etc can return as they get a bit older.

I don't think some childless people have a clue, not surprisingly. ChildessDBIL visited when mine were young. I was shocked to realise he could get up when he wanted, go out when he wanted, eat what he wanted when he wanted, watch what he wanted...........etc. It is a different world.

The other thing to consider:

Even the nicest people have their limits. If someone has travelled abroad to see you, I would expect there to be some child free time. Your own children are lovely of course - other people's often aren't and perhaps you're overestimating your friends' abilities to be patient

Gosh yes stop having them to stay!!! A month with someone else's 3 year old is a lot!! Like you say if they can even annoy their own mum (totally understandable) of course it's tough on someone else!
They should be better at hiding it though.

Just meet those friends once every so often for dinner maybe, have good quality time and then go home

Try to involve friend so they don't feel left out. Get them to read toddler a story or build with duplo or put his socks on. Give them the baby to hold. Have them push the pram or hold reins and be very appreciative

You need to be super sensitive about this. Someone who hasn't had children not by their own choice will likely find this an awful reminder of what they will never have. It's bad enough not being able to have kids in the first place but to then lose all your friends as well is a further kick in the teeth.

I have a child and my friend has many! Other than my own, I'm not a child-friendly person until they get old enough to be interesting. I tried seeing her at her home once but it was pointless. She'd drop everything to entertain their whims. Even worse she brought them all to my house once and she has a very different idea to me about how children should behave in other people's homes. For the sake of our friendship we only meet when she's child-free now.

Having children changes friendships generally.

Even when friends have families around the same time, things like afternoon naps being badly synchronised making meet ups impractical, or different parenting styles can put distance into a friendship.

Apparently the average friendship lasts 7 years. Most friendships are based around similar lifestyles and interests. Having a child changes that balance and some friendships will survive, and some won't. You've also got the barrier of being at a geographical distance, and I'd assume a lack of network for babysitting to secure 1:1 time on the friendship.

I would encourage you to get this thread moved to oversees living, rather than AIBU. Extended visits from friends who are on holiday, while you are just trying to get through your life, with kids, will resonate much more with others who are living overseas.

Noone, given the chance, would stay in a household with a newborn, or a three year old, for extended periods of time. Visitors, like fish, start to skink after three days.

Sounds to me like expectations were not managed. If I traveled abroad to visit you, I would expect you to have made plans so we could spend at least some time together, just the two of us. If that wasn't possible, then they should not have been invited.

Friendships do change, but some survive.

My kids are teens so not that young, but obv need me in other ways. I had a friend to stay last week who kept talking about 'getting my life back soon' and about other friends who have started a family 'being too old to do anything by the time the get their life back'.

I found it hard to articulate that life hasn't been 'on hold' whilst we desperately wait for our kids to grow up, it was all very odd.

I found it difficult being around two of my (at the time) close friends when they'd had kids and I hadn't. Not because they couldn't go out or have the same lifestyle as me though.

When the three of us got together, conversations always made their way round to the babies, what they were eating, what baby groups they went to, how they were developing/sleeping/etc. I used to try to join in but I couldn't really contribute to the conversations much because I didn't have any children of my own then. I tried my best but ended up pretty much sitting in silence for a lot of the time because even if the conversation moved to something else it inevitably moved back to a topic I knew nothing about pretty quickly. I started seeing them seperately so the conversation between talking about children and not was more equal but it became silly that I felt I had to do that to feel included in the friendship.

I basically ended up feeling pushed out by my two friends because I hadn't had kids yet. Now, pregnant, I make a conscious effort not to talk about my pregnancy to people unless asked and hope to god I don't ever shut people off by constantly excluding them from conversations.

I think that friendships between those with friends and those without becomes more strained for so many reasons.

Those with children*

Damnit

We've had childless friends stay with us but because we know they are staying, we don't carry on with normal routine, so I wouldn't be tidying, cleaning, washing etc while they were here and neither would I go for a nap when my child did.

I'd pop the washing machine on last thing at night, out the dishes in the dishwasher but I wouldn't expect them to sit around while I did a typical day.

Could it be she was hoping to go out etc, not stay at home and watch you do chores and look after your child? It's not unreasonable of her to expect some of your attention if you have invited her to stay?