In thinking friendship with childless friends most often change for the worst?

[heyhosilverballs]

I'll preface this with saying that I do have a couple of friends with whom things have remained ok. (Interestingly they've both worked a lot with kids though.)

Bar those two I've become distanced or fallen out with all of my friends who've not been able to or haven't wanted kids.

I had one friend come and stay for a month just after ds was born, a best friend. It was a disaster. She dislikes kids and clearly resented the time i was lavishing on ds (who was three months so still very needy) instead of her and became quite spiteful. The friendship collapsed. A couple of years later we tried to rekindle it but she still gets spiteful digs in and I'm over trying anymore.

Others friends have come and stayed and have been similarly annoyed at me not wanting to go out drinking until late etc.

I have an old friend staying now who've I've not seen in years. We used to go out partying a lot. She's being really impatient and snappy with ds (he's 3 so he can be a little irritating even to me as my pfb ). She's clearly annoyed at me paying him attention. He watched tv for 3 hours yesterday so we could chat and I got him to bed early. Today she's sat around being annoyed that I'm doing so much housework (I stuck a load of washing on as he got plastered in mud and peed himself) and have been making him and us breakfast lunch and tidying up after, nothing excessive.

She's constantly wanting to chat or do something and I'm trying to balance that with giving ds enough attention so he doesn't act up and wind her up even more thus making him even worse (the toddler and impatient person vicious cycle.)

Then I say ds is going for a nap and I'll try to nap too (she wanted to stay up until 2am drinking and ds was up at 5am so I'm really lagging.) Shes all of a sudden got a tremendous burst of energy and is slamming around the house for the last hour and a half.

I'm dreaded ds waking up and having to keep the pair of them both happy but apart. Ugh.

She wants to do long involved dinners and chats and that just isn't possible!

Someone tell me they can retain some old friendships without them thinking you're the most boring and rude fart ever and you being a half assed parent?

Stickthatinyourpipe- don't project please. I never said childless women were self centred.

And we tried for a long time to have ds, and he was unexpected in the end, a bit of a miracle baby. I'm certainly not being sneery about childless women.

Especially as we won't be able to have a second child.

I am childfree (and OK with it) and it's a massive treat to spend time with my friends' kids. I didn't understand at first how much time babies need but they don't stay babies for ever. I have two friends who welcome me into their family lives and it's something I really appreciate. I have others who just wrote me off - got no kids, what does she know about families. I would suggest maybe setting out some ground rules - can you explain that friends are welcome but they need to understand that when babies are asleep you don't wake them up, that they need naps, that you need naps?

I lost most of my friends when they had kids, and I can assure you it was nothing to do with me. They just stopped wanting to meet up. Now, because of my age, my friends mainly have adult children or teenagers and friendships are easy again.

It is actually pretty hard to be the childless friend when everyone has kids. Whether you want them or not.

It's probably more from being away rather than having children. People have their own lives and when people move away they do end up being slightly forgotten.

I know that's hard OP I moved away from my friends and of the huge group I had I only speak to about 3 now. It's noones fault it just happens.

heyhosilverballs not projecting at all the two you have mentioned do sound selfish and self centred. You asked for positive stories and I gave you one - what's your issue?

Two of my best friends have been a challenge at times, it annoys me how I'm mindfully trying to remain as much the same with them as I was before so as not to appear 'changed' or 'mummy' when actually they're being pretty rubbish at accepting my life is different now.

Pre-baby I was so confident in my own mind and life but now I seem to be slowly adding subtle bits of a 'people pleaser' to my personality, my old self would be mortified. In fact I'm going to try and change this now I've written this down!

I hear the people pleaser thing!

Maybe it is just the moving away. I've just hit 40 so have got all nostalgic and sad for old times.

I have great friends here but the culture is very different to my British friends and I miss them.

Not every childless woman is selfish and self-centred

Indeed not. But we are at liberty to be, should we so choose, having no immediate call on our attention

Stick - sorry if I was being oversensitive, I really didn't want anyone to think I was being judgy and off about childless women as I was one for so long and it's amazing I even had ds.

Much as I love ds i do envy the ability to be able to think about yourself more for a bit.

I wouldn't invite even my dearest friend in the world to stay for a month.

Don't worry OP it was more of a badly written comment like - your friends sound like that but don't worry not all Childless people are like that (hoping my original story would explain lol)

I think your friends do sound rather thoughtless and self-centred, OP. As a childfree womsn who has many friends with kids, I have learned that you need to work round the kids' routines. Having said that, I find babies and toddlers very dull and don't really enjoy spending time with them. They start to become more fun when they can communicate for themselves.

I've been in very similar situations to you dollydaydream114

I haven't been blessed with children sadly, so can relate very much to what dolly said.

However, as others have said, planning helps and as friends children get older things get better and better.
I know have the best fun with my dear friend's daughter who's now 21!
We get stuck into the wine and talk about all sorts

I had a friend 1 stay for 4 or 5 days when pfb was a month old. It was awesome. She looked online for a dress I could breastfeed in at a wedding while I cooked and baby napped. But I have lived with her before, and now we live far apart we have to do longish visits, so I already knew she would be a considerate guest. She thought everything I did with the baby was great (unlike baby's many grandparents who 'took over' a bit).
Another, more local friend doesn't really like babies and children. We saw each other less because I couldn't manage late nights as I didn't have the stamina. Now youngest has just turned 4, I've had more sleep over the past year or so, and we have met up a bit more often. She meets my children in passing but they don't spend time / have a relationship. That's ok, she's my friend, not theirs. Friend 1 on the other hand, DH refers to as family. Biologically she isn't, she's just always welcome, as is her new partner. Not every friendship needs to be that close / intense.

Yes friendships change. It happens. You will make friends with other people who also have children.

I think you're being unfair - your situation is pretty unusual. Most people limit visitors after having a baby - surely having a friend travel overseas to stay in a house with a newborn for a MONTH is inevitably going to cause tension, even if that friend were an absolute saint??!

More generally speaking - I'm a childless woman (although I like children a lot and would like to have my own soon), but many in our friendship group are parents. I find the only time it causes problems is when expectations aren't properly managed. So for instance - if a friend with a DC leaves it with her partner and comes out for a child-free night out, it's the same as it always was. If I'm invited over to a friend's house to see her and her DC, I'll have a great time seeing her and playing with the children. When it gets messy is when lines get blurred. For example, a friend turning up to dinner in a restaurant and unexpectedly bringing her DC, then spending the entire evening doing the whole 'sit down! Eat your food! Sorry what were you saying?' which ruins everyone else's evening.

Staying with a parent of young children and it's naturally all about the child. That's just the nature of things. Your friends were silly to think otherwise. And you should have realised this wouldn't work.

I think it can sometimes be difficult for long established friends without children to see your life shoot off in an entirely direction to their own, especially if for instance, they remember you as a carefree student back in nostalgic good ol' days. I have two very good friends, both single and without kids. As soon as I had my first baby I saw nothing of them for a year - texts and phonecalls only. We live miles apart anyway. One came to stay for a night when dd was 6 months and she was on a mission to get me to the pub - we had to leave after 20 minutes because my OH couldnt settle the baby. My friend was really disappointed but it was an eye opener because suddenly she understood my priorities had changed. 6 years and another baby later this friend has gradually got her head around things and is a fab and doting self appointed auntie. Didnt happen over night though and we see her only a few times a year. I think its good for your friend to see your life is different now - if shes a good friend she will get her head around it and make an effort to stay a part of it. Why dont you sound her out and ask her what she thinks about it all - could be quite illuminating!

I've definitely struggled with this too, OP. We had such a close group. Am the first one to have children (we're not young!) and it's been hard on the friendships. I'm not sure what the answer is.

What have you done to ring fence some one on one time with the friends who have travelled to visit you.

Have you planned for an evening or afternoon out with a babysitter or play date booked for your child?

Your life has absolutely changed and the proof is front and centre in front of them. They also need to see that you value them and are still interested how their life is going beyond acting as light relief from child rearing.

Believe it or not, many childless people who like children and understand that they have needs. This doesn't mean that it's unreasonable to still expect their friends to be willing to out themselves out for some uninterrupted catch up time.

I have grown kids but not much older than you. I would be delighted to have a free holiday where I could want or spend some time with friend.

P m if you need a new friend.

I think you just need to find friends that are happy with free holiday .

From the other side..... it can be really difficult being the childless friend too! I've seen one of my best friends 3 times in the last year. Not for want of trying, but she's so all-consumed by her baby that she doesn't answer or return calls/texts, cancels catch ups, and has to check with her husband before she does anything. This is a woman who is in a good job, bright, engaged, etc. I was concerned that there might have been PND but I don't know, as haven't seen her enough to chat. I don't feel welcome in her home either any more. I get it - life changes when you have a baby, and it's the most important thing in your world, but I miss her.
This woman lives 2 miles from me.....

Ps. Should say - she socialises with other people with children. Just not those of us who are barren spinsters (lol).