to let DS do school project on Jack the Ripper?

[soupforbrains]

DS is 10. he is bright, loves reading and is a huge history buff.

Summer homework project is "Choose a famous Victorian to learn about and present what you learn in a creative way".

DS wants to do Jack the Ripper, DS is already aware of Jack the Ripper from the Horrible Histories books and some other kids books/shows which have discussed great unsolved mysteries.

I think this is a fun idea, and together we have discussed presenting the finding on a big board like and investigation/crime board. Obviously there will be some glossing over of the details and clearly we're not about to stick crime scene photos up. We've also discussed looking into the living conditions in the east end of london at the time to give more social history learning to it than just the crimes.

I'm not an idiot and I know that this idea is perhaps a bit risky but so long as we do it in an age appropriate and not over gory manner would IBU to let son do this. Additionally would any teachers out there consider it to be interesting and a bit different from the no doubt countless Isambard Kingdom Brunels which turn up, or a step too far?

I'm really glad to see youre going to steer him in another direction. What about louis pasteur? So many significant discoveries, there should be plenty for him to get his teeth into?

Never underestimate how hilarious poo is for 10 year olds. I think Bazalgette is in the book I've got him from the library.

They'd probably be highly amused about parliament being suspended because of The Great Stink. There's loads of stuff online - even Thames Water have a bit about him on their website.

And he could make it relevant - add a coda about the need for sanitation and clean water in the 3rd world, and the work of Water Aid.

thanks stars Samuel Plimsoll added to the list.

goodness everyone is very wound up on the 'we' element aren't they. I'm not a moron, I know it's his project and yes he will do the work himself. He will however also only do the work when he is with me (as opposed to at holiday childcare), and thus we collectively have limited time. Additionally if he needs to go to the library we will have to go together, and, because I don't let him have unsupervised access to the internet we will have to do any internet research together. Just because I will be there with him doesn't mean I'm going to do it for him. calm down everyone.

Initially I thought Yanbu because he's an interesting historical figure but subsequent posts have changed my mind. There almost certainly will be a complaint from one or two parents if this thread is anything to go by. You could be putting the teacher in an invidious position.

I like the suggestions of Booth and Peel. I think they may appeal to him.

Horrible idea, for all of the reasons given in the thread. There are so many more interesting Victorians and stuff the 'but he's interested' argument. Kids are 'interested' in lots of unhealthy stuff and as responsible adults we redirect them.

Sorry xp. Fast thread!

There must be hundreds if not thousands of famous Victorians in the UK and what was the empire, choosing an unknown serial killer of prostitutes seems almost willfully provocative. There are scientists (beyond the obvious Darwin)eg Faraday, Babbage, inventors - Alexander Graham Bell had a really fascinating life, starting as a teacher of deaf children, social reformers - Elizabeth Fry for example, creatives like William Morris, explorers like Livingstone etc etc and yet you encourage your son to choose a brutal woman hater. Horrid History books are great but as a primary source of history they are not perfect, because everything is obviously horrid.
You need to remember this is not a "we" project as well, as others have said.

Elizabeth Fry
Mary Seacole
the work of the Quakers
Abstinence groups leading to the establishment of lots of chocolate companies
Charles Dickens experience sharing his father's time in jail although he was a child
Brunel
Titus Salt
Millicent Fawcett
Annie Besant

The last sentence in the horrible histories book about Jack the Ripper is 'If you ever find out the killer's true identity, and if you can prove it, you could sell your story for a million pounds' Actually encouraging them to launch their own investigation - which Op's son wants to do.

If he has shown an interest in mystery and horror then Florence Nightingale and Titus Salt are really not going to cut it.

The thing is Victorian values were so wildly different from our own, humans rights were so dreadful, the empire, views on women etc etc that there are not going to be many famous Victorians that don't have something severely dodgy in their bio. Any famous 'explorer' is a colonialist! Darwin didn't like women, Florence Nightingale didn't let Mary Seacole join the nursing corps because she was black. At least with Jack the Ripper he's an out and out villain that can be roundly condemned, as opposed to one of the more inspirational figures where we tend to airbrush out all the racism, sexism, classism and colonialism.

Just had a thought. DS likes Sherlock Holmes. Does Arthur Conan Doyle count as Victorian? and if so could we include the Cottingly Fairies even though that happened in 1917 so not Victorian?

And philanthropists are very worthy, but they're not going to inspire a child who is naturally more drawn to the Jack the Ripper end of the historical figure spectrum.

Arthur Conan Doyle is Victorian, yes - a biography is their full life, so he shouldn't have to stop just because his chosen person outlived Queen Victoria.

Icantreachthepretzels I've decided I like you

Do you think your DS would be interested in Sir Arthur Conan Doyle? The Sherlock Holmes stuff obviously offers lots of mystery and intrigue in his books, but he himself was a bit of an amateur detective at times (BBC adaptation about a case he solved springs to mind). I know he was also in the Edwardian era, but he started publishing well before the end of Victoria's reign. He was also seems to have gone through various phases of mysticism/spirituality etc. He also wrote a lot of historical stuff, including stuff set in Napoleonic times.

Oh bugger. Cross post! Sorry.

I don't think Jack the Ripper is an appropriate subject for a 10 year old to do a class project on. And I say that as a 35 year old woman who finds the subject fascinating. We must remember what he did. Just because it was a long time ago doesn't make it any less horrifying. He murdered and mutilated at least 5 women.

What about Isambard Kingdom Brunel?

soupforbrains it's nice to be liked

And philanthropists are very worthy, but they're not going to inspire a child who is naturally more drawn to the Jack the Ripper end of the historical figure spectrum.

icantreachthepretzels Admittedly, this was me as a child and I became a historian...

The Horrible History books sound a bit off. I think they should steer clear of serial killers.
As someone else mentioned Sweeney Todd, I thought I'd look that up, seems it wasn't even a real person, so not sure why they feature that character.

Er ... I did a school project on Jack The Ripper once.

I was 12 so slightly older than your son, though, and it was before the days of the internet so I couldn't go Googling crime scene pictures. I just focused on the unsolved mystery element of it and did some stuff about possible suspects and also about the area of Whitechapel and what it was like for people who lived there and so on. I can't remember if I mentioned the women were prostitutes; I suspect I probably didn't although I certainly did know that's what they were.

I'm not saying this because I think it's necessarily a great idea for a 10-year-old - it could be good but equally it could bother the parents of other kids and obviously a primary school environment is different from a secondary school one. Also, I did mine 30 years ago when apparently nobody gave a shit about kids being exposed to this sort of thing. I mention it more to reassure parents that if your child is interested in horror, serial killers and generally dark stuff, that doesn't mean they're some sort of disturbed killer-in-waiting ... I won't even kill spiders and have been known to rescue stranded bees.

Horrible history books are great for developing an interest but are not always accurate and put too much focus on the grim for then to be balanced in any way.

DS is the same age and loves history and he would choose a military leader. He's very good at picking on people's flaws as much as their strengths though. I'm not one for 'heroes ' as there are very few who are pure (don't get me started on footballers...)

Arthur Conan Doyle is a good one. I would certainly encourage someone he can do independent research on without having to have too much supervision from you though.

Given that there are references to JtR in books like Horrible Histories, I don't see a huge issue with your son basing his project around it. I really don't understand why only 'worthy' subjects are deemed acceptable.

I think as long as you are supporting him in doing the research and you talk about it together so he understands the material in an age appropriate way, I think that's a perfectly fine idea. I was a bit older, maybe secondary school age, but I did a school project on Jack the Ripper. I think you're right it opens up an opportunity to focus on living conditions and what people's lives were like back then and the public fascination and hysteria with the case, including today and the recent forensic investigations. I think also a good time to talk about violence and crime with your 10 year old because surely he knows these things happen today and better he talks about it with you than learning about it through some youtube video his friend showed him. Mine is only 4, but she's seen news footage of refugees and it sparked a whole conversation about why some people have to leave their homes and live in tents and how their lives are different than ours and how grateful we should be to have a safe place to live. It was actually really lovely. And I don't see a reason why this couldn't be grounds for a similar sort of conversation about a fairly adult subject.

haha Flash we obviously had the same thought. I've got a little list of suggestions that people have made along with the book which I will give to my DS. I've printed off the wikipedia pages for each of the suggestions to give DS the outline so he can see if they take his fancy.

Icantreachthepretzels is right about the fact that philanthropists and politicians etc not really catching my DS's imagination but anything related to wars/military campaigns, or mysteries will I can guarantee grab him, some scientific/engineering discoveries might also but it's hard to tell who would and who wouldn't. He's more into crime and mystery than horror though, I should add.

Can anyone remember the name of the lady who was an extremely prolific dinosaur hunter but was refused membership to the Royal Academy and largely un-recognised despite making HUGE discoveries?

Another idea to float:

If people are worried about the sex, prostitution and mutilation aspects of Jack the Ripper, but your son is into gore - How about Burke and Hare?
They killed people and sold the bodies to anatomists. Purely for profit, no sex, no misogyny and because they were sold for autopsy they didn't mutilate. They told the doctor they sold the bodies too that they had died of natural causes, but in fact they were drumming up their own business. They were caught and one of the was hanged.
Because they are unequivocally bad people you don't have to ignore all the problematic Victorian attitudes they held whilst reading out a paean to their wondrous deeds.
There's a horrible histories song about them.
And way more interesting for the teacher than yet another Isambard Kingdom Brunel.

Horrible Histories makes its very clear that Sweeny Todd is fictional - the books might be simplistic (they are for children) but they do strive for accuracy. They just don't linger on your worthies unless they have dirt on them.