to let DS do school project on Jack the Ripper?

[soupforbrains]

DS is 10. he is bright, loves reading and is a huge history buff.

Summer homework project is "Choose a famous Victorian to learn about and present what you learn in a creative way".

DS wants to do Jack the Ripper, DS is already aware of Jack the Ripper from the Horrible Histories books and some other kids books/shows which have discussed great unsolved mysteries.

I think this is a fun idea, and together we have discussed presenting the finding on a big board like and investigation/crime board. Obviously there will be some glossing over of the details and clearly we're not about to stick crime scene photos up. We've also discussed looking into the living conditions in the east end of london at the time to give more social history learning to it than just the crimes.

I'm not an idiot and I know that this idea is perhaps a bit risky but so long as we do it in an age appropriate and not over gory manner would IBU to let son do this. Additionally would any teachers out there consider it to be interesting and a bit different from the no doubt countless Isambard Kingdom Brunels which turn up, or a step too far?

A brilliant project that looked at prostitutes and social history would be Josephine Butler and her campaign to repeal the Contagious Diseases Act.

Prostitution was part of life because it was the only viable career option for many poor women. It shouldn't be glossed over.

Rita i read City of Sin by Catharine Arnold a couple of years ago. There is a section in it which says Butlers campaign drove prostitutes underground which made them more easy prey for JTR.

my whole post just got EATEN... & it was LONG & my wrists & hands are really not wanting to play because they are made of fail... gah...

V glad to see Mr Epidemiology Himself on list of suggestions; would venture that extending PPs suggestion of using The Original And Best John Snow's map to create a kind of atlas with biographical maps for him & contextual maps for anything else your DS wanted to include might be A Plan? With much more information given in map keys than one would normally get, obviously...

Given Conan-Doyle's most famous as author of Sherlock Holmes I think your DS could totally use crime-board thingy for presentation.

If your DS is a Cub he could look at what Baden-Powell did before starting Scouts & Guides - maybe producing the report as a kind of spy notebook? He could write some bits in code & put a broken version underneath with just a few letters missing so it's still legible...

If he'd be willing to move outside the Empire, Ignaz Semmelweis rather lends himself to a specially made "please wash your hands" sign...

Your DS could do a treasure map for Robert Louis Stevenson... or pie charts for Florence Nightingale (plus insisting on carrying an owl on his person, obviously )?

Should it be any consolation, your original thought was probably better than plumping for Le Pétomane & presentation consisting of an attempt at recreating one of his performances...

If you take away prostitution and the murder and mutilation of women, what's left of interest in the Jack the Ripper case?
If your 10 year old was asked to do a project about someone from the
1970s, how would your feel about them doing Peter Surcliffe?

I think it's like doing a project on Jimmy Savile and keeping the focus on his splendid charitable work.

Savile's character, career and popularity is, of course a topic of cultural interest. But most of us would feel a little queasy if our children said, 'Gosh, there are lots of mysteries about Jimmy Savile and I think that would be wonderful material for my school project.'

Bertrand,Elinor, I agree- or the Ipswich murders of women, which were just over ten years ago.
It hasn't been possible for the police to discover how some of the women were murdered. That's not a good mystery for a schoolboy to write about for a school project which doesn't mention prostitution either.

Of course what's really wrong is our society's acceptance of/normalisation of sexual violence - which has led to a sense that a project on Jack the Ripper can be 'a fun idea.'

It would be valid to see Jack the Ripper as a kind of sexual terrorist/extremist. In a world where disdain for 'fallen women' and fear of female sexuality were positively encouraged he took the disdain and fear for those of another gender to a particular kind of conclusion.

But if a child today wanted to do a project on, say, a particular religious thinker whose dislike for those of another religion led him to commit (or incite others) to killing, a teacher might be required to inform police as part of the Prevent strategy...

Butlers campaign drove prostitutes underground which made them more easy prey for JTR.

Sorry to detail but could you expand? As in how did her campaign to get rid of the police's ability to perform spot checks for STDs on unchaperoned women on the street drive them underground?

Surely it was the fear of being spot checked and consequently thrown in jail that would drive them underground in the first place?

Agree Elinor

And on a wider note I'd say it was the disdain for and taboo surrounding prostitutes in Victorian society that drove them underground into dangerous situations (like JTR)?

Which is still today reflected in the OP's (and society's) focus on the whodunnit and mystery solving part of JTR whilst wishing to gloss over the prostitution issue which is somehow deemed unsavoury.

If you take away prostitution and the murder and mutilation of women, what's left of interest in the Jack the Ripper case?
It is interesting due to the development of the police force, emerging forensics science, and unprecedented involvement of the media. And that it remains unsolved.

I'm confused why the OP is getting such a battering for this. She has explained the 'fun idea' comment.

History is history, are we suggesting that we teach our children Disney versions and wipe out anything nasty? I'm not suggesting going into graphic detail before you jump on me too.

And, yes too the many posters who have asked - in 100 years time Brady, Sutcliffe, shipman will all be part of our history as serial killer because thankfully these types of psychopaths are few and far between.

History is history, are we suggesting that we teach our children Disney versions and wipe out anything nasty?

I think the way we deal with JTR is the Disney version and that's the problem.

It's treated as an entertaining horror movie, the spine-tingling image of a stranger in the dark alley that is used to titillate. That's the Disney version.

The graphic reality of torture, prostitution and poverty is omitted.

I also think that the issue of psychopaths with multiple victims is very far from exceptional.

For example there are many incidents of men who kill not only their female partners but also their children, after being told that the marriage is over.

Such crimes often receive relatively little coverage in the media and defence lawyers will argue that being rejected 'drove' men to behave in this way.

"History is history, are we suggesting that we teach our children Disney versions and wipe out anything nasty?"
No. That's why this particular topic is inappropriate for a 10 year old.

This thread has made me reflect that it would be very useful if all children in Year 6 - some of who will have reached puberty - could have a visit from a charity which supposed survivors of sexual violence (rape and other forms of abuse.) and receive an age-appropriate talk. This would give young people a better understanding of the ways in which when entering relationships in teenage years, people have to be very careful not to hurt or harm one another because of the long-lasting damage which is done.

I've just finished the late Philip Sugden's book on Jack the Ripper, and it is absolutely excellent. Mr. Sugden attempts to be as factual as possible, and steer clear of the urban myths. It also gives a lot of information about the lives and backgrounds of the victims, including those now considered not to be actual victims of the Ripper, but of someone else. Highly recommended.

If he really wants to do a (serial) murderer, how feasible is Mary Ann Cotton? Much fewer gruesome details, and has the benefit of potentially working a bit of pro choice and feminist history into it too (working from the theory that she would have no need to do it now, which assumes motives aren't purely financial - which is of course debatable)

"I think the way we deal with JTR is the Disney version and that's the problem"

agree

I wouldn't. I find the fascination with someone who mutilated and murdered women very disturbing and not something to be encouraged. And if you need to gloss over certain aspects you are glossing over the murder and mutilation

What she said.

He was just your run of the mill rapist and serial killer wasn't he? Why do we think it's a great fascinating topic for a boy because it happened a long time ago?

Would it really turn a child off history if he can't read about mutilated women?

And on a wider note I'd say it was the disdain for and taboo surrounding prostitutes in Victorian society that drove them underground into dangerous situations (like JTR)

It was nothing to do with the fact they'd met a violent psychopath?

ButtHole, I agree 100%!

But I was responding to a PP's argument that the repeal of the Contagious Diseases Act forced prostitutes underground (and into the path of JTR).

If you look at serial rapists and killers who target prostitutes, one of the reasons they do so is that society sees those women as worthless and the police do not treat their murders with the same seriousness.

If he was doing a project on nazi germany or Jews in Germany no one would bat an eyelid. Just for context

I actually think there would be similar concerns. How could a child cover the important content about this time, without looking up and understanding distressing material? Without looking up and seeking to understand such material, how much value would any work have?