To think this is a little unnecessary ? (Mil related)

[Chamonix1]

In many ways I like my mil. This is not meant to be a bashing thread.
However, my mil can be somewhat overbearing. It's noted by many but her positive traits outweigh this, none of us are perfect etc, dd loves her and her husband lots.
recently she has got into changing my daughters clothes (aged 4) every time she goes to her house. I'd completely get this if daughter had dirtied her clothes (although she does get packed spares) or if she was worried about permanently staining her clothes because they were special etc.
However, dd is sent in practical clothes and with spares in case she needs.
I understand that if mil has picked up a special outfit she would love to see dd in, but this is every.time.
Dd has got to the age now where she likes to pick aspects of her outfits and I allow this as long as it's appropriate. She's starting to make her own identity and express it.
Mil has as stated been very overbearing in the past, mainly with DH who as a child was controlled in such ways and it did continue into adult life, he now has a bit of a rocky relationship with his mum due to her controlling traits. (I'm talking more than telling him what to wear. Although that was pushed into his mid twenties)
Would I be unreasonable to just point out she really needn't change her clothes and that dd likes to choose parts of her outfit? I really do feel like she's been treated like a dolly and she's well past the baby age where she doesn't care.
I'm aware that on the grand scheme of things this is trivial, however the element of control mil likes to have over everyone is now bothering me as i feel it'll be affecting dd.
For what it's worth if someone was to do this to DH when he was a child my mil would've been very cross, she takes pride in her appearance and this was applied to my husband when little too, it would most certainly be seen as an insult.
Maybe she really hates my choice of clothing for dd? Do all grandmothers do this? Maybe one day I'll understand, but for now I'm confused to say the least.

The thing that would concern me is that MIL has form for her overbearing and controlling behaviour that has affected your DH into adulthood. I would therefore be very strict with boundaries and letting her start controlling your dd.

My mother is not particularly controlling but she has issues with the way my daughter dresses - and it's not like it's outlandish. She doesn't like certain colours and has basically banned one particular top from being worn at hers (so I bought a pair of trainers in the same colour and wear them gleefully cos I know she hates them but she can't tell me what to wear!!)

My daughter likes fairly hippy clothes (nothing tight, nothing structured, floaty airy stuff in greens, yellows and oranges, preferably dresses) and likes bizarre colour combos but she's 8 and looks fabulous in pretty much everything so I don't care and she can wear what she likes but... for peace and because there are bigger battles in life I am careful about what she wears when she goes to granny's house.

my mum looks after my 3 year old son every wednesday and 9 times out of 10 he comes back in other clothes . she buys him so much stuff ( i tell her not to ! ) she can't resist a bargain if she sees a nice t shirt or shorts for him. it doesn't bother me at all , I am grateful for the childcare and happy he is being treated by nannie.
my mil never does this , however.
it sounds like there is more going on with your situation op .

"Yes would be nice if DH saw the connection and why it bothers me. He has learnt not to disagree with his parents, ever. Unfortunately that element of this is what worries me most. That it'll be the same with dd."

THIS is the essence of your problem. It's not an entirely uncommon one on Mumsnet, either!

The trouble is, you are worried for the long term: what happens when there is a conflict and your MIL runs over some boundaries? How will you ensure they are restated, and avoid being totally overrun with your DH being weak and unable to stand up to her?

I would start working on this now before it becomes an issue. Have a look at the Susan Jeffers book 'Toxic Parents', and see whether your DP would benefit from reading it. Try to speak to him seriously about this issue (if you can pin him down and stop him wriggling out because it's so uncomfortable).

My DH's parents are extremely controlling - to a point that is utterly selfish and ridiculous. He had to go to counselling for a bit to be able to stand up to them, not only in real life but to the way he'd internalised their thoughts and reactions. Things are WAY better now for both of us and I no longer fear being overrun by them because I have also learned that I can stand up to them.

I don't know what weird Freudian thing it is with men and their mothers, but breaking out of the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) is part of growing up that many, many men haven't actually done.

It's a bit odd but if she's got nice clothes your dd wants to put on then it's not right to stop that, it's also not right if your dd is only doing it to please her gran or feels she has to.

I'd go with making sure your daughter knows she can say no thank you to new clothes and knows she can ALWAYS tell you if her gran asks her to do stuff she doesn't want to. It's clearly going to be important that you and your dd have open lines of communication about granny in case you do need to step in at some point, but personally, i wouldn't step in now unless your dd confesses she doesn't enjoy dressing up / trying on these other clothes.

Although I've not read the book, I think a lot of what bemused says is useful. Think of the long-term. How long is this dressing her up going to go on for? What else will be 'unacceptable' next, once this is established? I think you have to say no to it: it's controlling, it's a waste of money, and your child is not a toy. It's one thing wearing an outfit for a special occasion (we've all had to grit our teeth and bear it and say thank you for something truly hideous) but it's another when it has to be for run of the mill, routine visits.

My mil did this with my first and I found it intensely irritating like what she was wearing wasn't good enough... which at age 4 and up she had started to select her own outfits. My mil is very very controlling and so this was just another silly way to try and dominate a situation. She regularly refused to listen to my instructions regarding my children which has lead to a very strained relationship now.

She was also very controlling to her son as he was growing up.

She kept buying my children clothes to bring home too, largely from charity shops which I hated. Not becaise they were second hand but that they were just hiddious. I had to put a stop to this as the volume of junk was building up and it would be another job for me to return to a charity shop. It became almost ridiculous every time my children saw her they would come home with another piece of tat a toy or outfit and when you have 4 kids it really adds up.

She still buys them clothes I have no idea why as they never go round there hardly.... and suggested buying them school coats which again they want to choose.

Like I say this is just one of a number of annoying things she does just be firm with your mil and hopefully she wil stop.

I get sent photos of her in the clothes that's the only way I know she's been changed as soon as I've left, she's dropped back in clothes I sent

So she changes her into "her" clothes, and then changes her back to your clothes when she's going home? What a faff. It's bad enough when one of the grandchildren is staying and I have to change them because they've got soaked in puddles. I keep a stash of practical clothes here (with parental approval!) for muddy walks and so on, but if possible, I avoid changes. Who needs that hassle? I'd rather spend the time playing with them, chatting, and getting to know them.

Maybe granny should spend her energy doing something constructive with her grandchild. Oh and we're not all like her. The other grandparents I know are like me - clothes and appearance are way down the list of priorities - and we're not trying to mould our grandchildren in any way. We had our turn after all.

My own DM was like this with my DD . She was always trying to put her in pretty dresses which while lovely were totally impractical. In her early teens my DD was in a black clothes stage, didn't bother me , but my DM despaired and would supply her with very girly outfits. Even now she buys clothes that have and never will be worn. I told my DM that I didn't tell her what to dress her DD (me) in, so why should she tell me how to dress my DD. Now my 16 year old DD has pink hair and my DM blames me for being liberal in her early days. I just throw it back at her and say it is my DM 's fault that she is now rebelling after being forced into 'frou-frou '. I actually embrace her individuality.

Nope. Wouldn't have this. My ex DH and his GF was doing this to all three of mine - including laying their clothes out for them for the morning. My eldest is 15!

Mentioned (very politely as me and exdh usually get on ok) that this wasn't appropriate as they are not dolls (kids also said they found it stifling).

At 4, children are just learning to express their own personality. Obviously clothing needs to be age appropriate but changing a child into adult-chosen clothing for no better time reason than she wants to control what the child is wearing for her own benefit is not ok. I'd be saying something.

She sounds like she might be narcissistic. She changes your DD, sends you pictures and then changes her back. She doesn't respect your or your DH's boundaries and trained him to agree with everything or he will get abuse. FOG is not something you need to grow of, it is something you develop when you have been exposed to emotional abuse from a parent or partner.
The part about being worried of problems when your DD will want to make her own choice is spot on I think. Narcissists want other people to be enmeshed with them, like an extension of themselves.

I think it sounds really weird. She's treating your daughter like a possession. I'd speak to her now.

Leggings are pretty grim though I have 3 boys and would love a GD one day and fear I may end up like your MIL!

If it is clear that MIL really doesn't like them does DD have any other clothes that she (DD) likes or wants to wear that may fit in with GM's preferences. I am not saying buy something especially but just chose something you think she might prefer.

Does MIL have any daughters or just sons. Maybe she is living out her little girl thing if she only had boys. Maybe DD has a party dress that she only wears occasionally and perhaps one of those occasions could be to visit granny. It may be something simpler like a pinafore with tights etc if you want to be more practical.

It doesn't need to be a her vs you thing or even her vs DD thing. If it is because her preference is for DD to be more girly and DD actually has some dresses could you bear to let her go like that?

Would she take her shopping and let her choose, or would she ride roughshod over your DD?

It's Girls that tend to get forced to wear clothes they don't want to and I think this is the start of training Girls to back down to the wants of others and getting subtle messages about how they feel is less important.

Your MIL needs to find another way of fulfilling whatever she's got going on internally, the control has got to be stopped.

I spend a while looking at clothes for my GD's, but I run them past my DD, just looking is enough. I've stopped buying so I can afford the high-up Playhouse for my back garden, for Christmas. I've got plans to decorate it with a mini tree and lights etc.

There are lots of other ways, that the child won't pick up on as control, that a Grandmother can still have fun planning/arranging.

My mother used to do it, in her case it was because she was attempting to convince all and sundry that I was a neglectful parent sending her in inappropriate clothing.

This became very obvious when she started repeatedly reporting me to social services who due to my age always came out to check up after each report. It ended up in them assisting with locating funding for me to get qualified and me then starting anvery sucessful career

Tell her to stop it.

If she doesn't, your daughter doesn't go there unsupervised.

And no, it's not harmless, it's horrid.

You've got a dominated DH problem and a rather weird MIL control problem. That it's manifested itself in undressing and redressing DD twice in one visit is bizarre. Try not sending a spare outfit with DD and see what happens. If any clothes changing goes on in that circumstance would you not be worried whether MIL is the right person to be caring for DD?

YANBU and I completely agree with birds. I know a four year old's clothes seem trivial, but as birds points out, it's more often than not girls that get forced to wear clothes they don't want to wear. And sure, she's only four, but it's a tiny step along the long road that leads girls to believe their bodies don't fully belong to them.

Also I think this is one of those situations where you need to listen to your instincts. You're not happy about it and your reasons for not being happy about it are entirely coherent. Your instincts are telling you that this is something you shouldn't allow to continue. Your child is not a dolly. She's an autonomous human being with a body that belongs to her and her alone.

It's inappropriate, your DD is not a doll.

I would also be concerned that this sets an inappropriate precedent in teaching your DD that it's ok for people to undress her

I'd be asking her to stop or quietly stopping unsupervised contact personally.

Allthebest
Dd wears all sorts of clothes, dresses (very girly that she loves) demon shorts and t shirts, skirts, leggings, tights, all sorts of different types of clothes.
I really have no idea what mil's preference is, she's changed her out of pretty dresses in the past, I thought this was a practice thing until yesterday when she went for a bike ride with them and was wearing shorts and a t- shirt and before mil had even seen what dd was wearing she came armed with a different top and trousers for her to wear.
I don't think I'd a preference of how her granddaughter dresses it's more she wants her to wear what she has chosen her.
Which imo is worse and just about control.

Demon/denim you know same thing.
Sorry very tired and sick not typing well at all!

Do these clothes stay at you MILs house too? Do you not get to bring them home?

I would ask her to stop changing her for no reason, she is not a toy, and she is getting too old to be babied like that.

Pigface
I entirely agree.
I also massively think it's one of the worst things to teach a child, that you dress this way, regardless of what you feel about it to impress and keep someone happy. Just not right.
She came home and today as she went for a sleepover and told me "nana wouldn't let me wear those pjs" and handed me her "trolls" pjs out of her bag. Wouldn't let me wear is the bit that bothers me.
It's a reflection of what I really feel is going on.
In the past I've limited time with her grandparents alone as I felt the element of control was a bit much and they weren't listening to the way we decide to parent dd but it's caused a lot of issues and upset. DD has a great time with them and asks to see them so it's tough. At 4 years old you don't see these problems just enjoy the 24/7 2-1 attention from your grandparents.

We don't regularly ask them to take her at all, they do go through phases of asking to take her lots and then not so much so it's hard to keep up with and difficult to know what to do.
We have baby #2 on the way and I'm secretly dreading doing this all over again.

Lemon
No; they are special clothes for Nana's house. We don't get given them for general use.
She's bought her special shoes just for Nana's too. I really don't understand it personally.
When dd was a baby she used to dress her like a dolly but at that age I let it go because dd knew no different.

Birds
Unfortunately no she wouldn't take her shopping, at least never has. Just stores things at home for her and puts her in them. She wouldn't like dd's choice in clothes and wouldn't spend money on it.

In the past I've had bin bags of clothes shoved at me being told is pointless having them at hers as she doesn't see dd enough for her to wear them all. That would be an awful lot of visits, a whole wardrobe of clothes. Things like this happen when they've not been able to take her when we've genuinely just been busy doing things.