To not know how to deal with DS' behaviour post-split?

[CarrieMayBe]

Split with EXH at Christmas, he had an affair and left me. Total shock for our children, they had no idea it was coming, he literally sat them down and told him he was leaving. DCs are 9 and 7.

DD(9) was hysterical, full on screaming, begging him to stay etc. Has struggled to deal with it at times since but always opens up to me and talks it through, we have spent hours and hours talking and it definitely helps her even though I have no answers really to her questions but I try.

DS(7) was initially upset but soon got over it, I knew at the time it was far too quick and that he wasn't really processing it. He's much quieter than DD but I know it's all ticking away inside his head. He does talk about stuff but not for long and nowhere near as deeply as DD does.

Anyway, they're in a good routine of seeing Ex, they stay with him 3 nights out of 14 and have a close relationship with him. Always happy to go to his, happy when they come back mainly although DS started playing up a bit when they came home about 2 months ago. Nothing major, just being clingy at bedtime and would want to have me to himself for a bit, sometimes engineering an argument with his sister to get attention etc. As soon as I became aware that this was what he was doing I tried to accommodate his needs and would head it off before it began by having some time alone with him so he didn't feel the need to create a situation just to get me alone. All going reasonably well at this point.

On Monday, I had to tell the children that the marital home (which we are still living in) is going to have to be sold. We've only been here just over a year and it was a big deal to them moving here in the first place as they'd always lived in the same house until that point and didn't want to move. But, they settled well and love it here. We have an enormous garden and they spend all their time out there climbing trees and building dens. Wherever we end up moving to won't have anything like they have here and they know that. DD did her usual, major dramatics and hysterics (3hr long meltdown, threatening never to see Ex ever again because she thinks it's all his fault) but got it all out of her system and has been quite pragmatic about it. She has spent a lot of time talking to me about her worries and is dealing with it ok. DS on the other hand, cried then went outside and kicked everything in sight. He has been so angry ever since, his anger has been increasing lately anyway - mainly in his reactions to petty arguments with his sister, he will quickly go from nothing to crying with rage - but this week it has gone off the scale.

Yesterday, it culminated in the mother of all meltdowns. As usual, it started with a petty argument over which of them were going to tidy away the toys they had both been playing with. DS felt he should only put away the toys he had actually got off the shelf, regardless of whether or not he had played with them. I didn't agree with this, he wasn't budging though. He refused to come out of the room he was in to do so, repeatedly telling me 'no'. I did eventually get him to go to his room to calm down, he was already very angry at this point. Once I'd left him for a while I went in to see him and calmly explained that he needed to come and help tidy up. Again, he refused but was crying and shouting at me so I removed his iPod and told him he could have it back when he'd tidied up.

This was like a red rag to a bull and all hell broke loose. I tried not to engage, just repeated that he could have it back when he'd done as I asked. It just escalated from there, he was beside himself and I've never seen him like he was. He was red in the face, tears just streaming out of his eyes without any sobbing as such, just pure rage. He did somehow manage to tidy up amidst much shouting that he hates his life and everybody in it. DD was crying by this point too as she was so shocked by what was happening.

At one point I grabbed him and sat him on my lap and tried to just cuddle him in close whilst calmly telling him it was ok, I was there and I would hold him and help him calm down but he was screaming that I was hurting him - I definitely wasn't, I loosened my grip and was barely making contact - and he got away. I was crying too by this point as his behaviour scared me, he was hitting out at me and I didn't know how to handle it. He managed to grab his iPod out of my pocket and ran off to his room with it.

I rang my best friend just to ask for advice and she talked me through and calmed me down. I went to talk to DS and explained how this can't continue, look at what it had escalated into and that it wasn't acceptable. I didn't remove his iPod as I knew it would kick off again so calmly told him if he gave it to me then he could have it back after 24hrs. If I had to take it from him then he would lose it for a week. He ranted about it but eventually handed it over.

I then had to try and get some food into him as they were being picked up shortly by ex to stay at his for the night. DS didn't really want to eat but picked at it, I sat down next to him and spoke to him about what had happened and he totally broke down. He said how he likes going to his dad's but wants me to go there with him too. He wants us to get back together, he hates having 2 houses...all the usual stuff. He desperately doesn't want to move. It's like everything he has been feeling for the past 8 months is now coming out and I don't know how to deal with it

Ex told me on Weds that he would speak to the children about the house move when they went to his that night. He didn't do it, claiming they were fine and happy at his and didn't want to upset them. I can't help feeling that his refusal to broach the issue (and he's done this before, when DD was struggling after he left he promised to talk to her but didn't bother), is down to feeling guilty that he has caused this and I'm certain it's because he can't deal with seeing them upset. He is extremely emotionally stunted himself so it's no surprise to me.

However, I feel that by him ignoring what's going on in their lives it's like he's separating their two worlds even further. Like 'you're upset at home but here you're ok' kind of thing? He's invalidating their feelings by ignoring the fact he knows they're upset about something - they know he knows - yet doesn't even mention it. Neither DC like talking to him about things, I don't really know why though.

I just don't know how to help my children through this. They've gone from happy, easy going children to, quite frankly, pretty fucked up children. I'm scared for them and for myself too as I don't feel confident enough in my parenting abilities to know the best way of dealing with this. Things are so acrimonious between ex and I, mostly due to difficulties with the divorce, and I feel he's just watching me and waiting to take the children off me. He has levelled all sorts at me about my capability to parent, all of which is bollocks, but it's at the back of my mind constantly when trying to deal with their behaviour.

There is an excellent family support worker at their school who has offered to get involved but neither child will agree to see her. They say they don't want to speak about it to anyone - I've tried and tried. They both know that I've been having therapy since the start of all this and that it helps me to talk it through with someone but even so, it's a firm no from them. I feel I have no choice though and will need one get her involved when they go back in September.

Please help me find a way through this, they are back from their dad's this evening and I want to start from today. I told DS before he left that tonight would be a fresh start with no repercussions from yesterday. I need to find a way where I don't give in to him but it cannot escalate like it did yesterday, it was insane and if I had neighbours then I'm certain SS would be on my doorstep tomorrow morning!

Sorry it's so long. Didn't want to drip feed.

Poor, poor him and you too.

My mother died and my dad sold our home. I found the loss of the home traumatic in a way I could not and still cannot express.

Wow! What an amazing mum you are! If you aren't confident in your parenting ability, god help the rest of us! Keep being the emotionally stable, mature influence that you are, your Ex has shown himself to not be anywhere near how good are and frankly that won't change so expecting him to say or do the right thing is pissing in the wind.
Your DS and your DD will get over this, thanks to you.

Sorry posted too soon, fuck the neighbours, don't be seen to worry about noise or your DS and DD will use it in the future as it will be a hit button, just keep doing exactly what you are doing , following through with the consequence but most importantly giving the child a choice( as you did re the iPod)
It WILL pass

Thank you, I don't feel I handled yesterday at all well as there were moments where I didn't manage to stay calm and I did shout at him. I just couldn't get him to calm down, I was at my wit's end.

The trouble with the whole house issue is that ex offered to buy me out and therefore the children would've been able to still stay here at weekends etc. In an ideal world that would've been perfect, the house is huge and I cannot afford to run it and maintain it if ex can. However, he was totally unrealistic in not only how much he could raise to buy me out but also the amount he offered aaa nowhere near enough to enable me to stay within catchment area. We would've had to move to a cheaper area and the children would've had to move schools and I know they wouldn't handle that on top of everything else that's happened to them.

When I told the DCs the house would have to be sold, I tried to be fair to ex by telling them that he had offered a solution that enabled them to still stay in the house when they were with them but explained what the consequences of that would be. They both said no way would they move schools. He has now thrown this at me that it wasn't appropriate to threaten them with moving schools and was totally out of order to put that on their shoulders. I just feel I'm
Handling this all the wrong way, whatever I say and do is wrong

Oh blimey!

Seconding another poster to say you really sound like a wonderful mum. It sounds to me like you are doing a great job of remaining level-headed and calm for those children.

It will pass.It will of course take time to adjust, for all of you, but obviously it won't happen overnight. Even if it feels like your son is out of control, at least he is expressing himself and talking to you!He is only 7, still a very young IMO.

Also remember that even if your husband hadn't have left at this point, one of you probably would have done anyway since the marriage was unhappy. It might have seemed as if your kids were happy and laid back before, but they would have picked up on the atmosphere eventually.

Imagine if this had happened smack in the middle of GCSE's etc.

Wishing you all the best OP. Donto beat yourself up, it sounds like you are doing an amazing job

Have a unmumsnet hug from me. From what you've written, I think you need to be a bit more gentle on both yourself and your children. You're all going through a horrible time that you never instigated, you must all feel quite battered and bruised.

It sounds to me like you little boy is feeling angry with a capital A and that that is how he's 'handling' your break up. He needs to be able to get that anger out in a more constructive way. I wonder if there are any martial arts clubs that he could attend and something quite physical like running or swimming that could help him burn off the negative energy. He's not ready to talk you about his feelings, but you could involve him with a club that would give him another adult to talk to as and when he's ready. I don't think kids rationalise at that age that it's the father that has caused this shift in their life - they just know things are not the same and kids love stability and continuity. That's not to say that they can't adapt and this period of their life will give them the tools in later life to be able to deal with change.

I'd certainly back off a bit with the discipline - just for now - not to say that you don't discipline at all, but pick your battles carefully.

Oh and ignore your ex; he's a crap parent and he knows it. You're doing a brilliant job and your kids will realise in time the sacrifices you've made. Be kind to yourself.

Martial arts club sounds fantastic, I will definitely look into it. Trouble is, I'm seriously struggling for money at the moment, this house is bleeding me dry hence my desperation to sell. Ex has stopped paying me the maintenance we agreed between ourselves when he left. I have opened a case with CMS so hopefully he will have to start payin again soon but he couldn't have picked a better time to do this - summer holidays, school uniforms, bus passes to shell out for. Not to mention my legal fees which are averaging £700/month because he's being so bloody difficult with the divorce.

I know the kids are picking up on all this, I'm trying not to drag them into it but have had to tell them that I can't afford certain things and they just aren't used to it. We had a high standard of living when ex was here and as much as it won't do them any harm at all to realise that money doesn't grow on trees, at the same time they're catastrophsing and think we're all going to starve! I don't harp on about my finances. It's only when they want to do something particularly expensive - hiring bikes on a day out was a recent example that I just couldn't justify at £30/hour - that I have to explain that I can't do it.

It's just so hard.

Oh sweetheart. This sounds so hard on all of you and your ex sounds like a dick tbh! So many difficult things all going on at once.

It will get easier but it will take time. Your children will be fine. Their whole world has turned upside down and inside out, they're trying to process it.

I always thought a house I used to live in with my ex was what made me happy and I'd be miserable having to move. That was not the case at all. After having to move home 5 times in 2 years after the break up, I quickly realised bricks and mortar don't matter. Home is where your family are. That's all that matters. Your children will adjust. Agree though that you should try to avoid them moving schools at all costs.

Being brutally honest I think you were over the top with the iPad situation with your son. I understand you trying to keep boundaries and discipline in place but that was too far. Go easy on him and pick your battles.

I wish you and your family love and luck. Take some time for you too.

I advice but I hope your ex falls over in dog shit every day for get rest of his life.

It paying maintenance, not dealing with his children, ugh.

Is he paying to mortgage at least?

Can you call his parents and tell them their son isn't paying any mantanace and please could they buy for the children?

I've also been wondering if I went over the top with the iPod situation. But, at the time, they'd both been asked to tidy up, DD was happy to do so but DS was refusing and how do I let him get away with it whilst still remaining fair to DD? This is how it is constantly in our house, petty squabbles and arguments that I don't know the correct way to referee without one of them claiming I'm sticking up for the other! It's out of hand and I don't know how to move forwards.

When I had to explain the whole story to ex last night, he accused me of bringing the children up in an emotionally unstable environment. He said I'm always stresssd but it's not true, I am with him and when I have to deal with him but
Mostly I keep it away from the children. I just know he's thinking he doesn't have battles like yesterday's when the children are with him but that's because they know not to push boundaries with him and are better behaved for him.

It would be pointless appealing to his parents for any help financially, on paper I don't have a bad income with my wages and tax credits but it all goes on bills because of the size of the house. My council tax alone is almost £250/month and I would be so much better off if I could get out of here and move somewhere smaller. I've just had to order £400 worth of heating oil as couldn't continue to run the hot water off the immersion after we ran out of oil. That amount won't last much past November, if that, and prices will have risen massively by then to replace it. I'm so sick of this whole situation and it's a massive learning curve for me. However, he was so financially controlling I am actually enjoying being able to budget for myself for the first time ever.

I think you've answered yourself the reason they won't talk to him - you said he's emotionally stunted. I think even very young children can sense adults inability to deal with stuff/weaknesses and they know that opening up to him will be a waste of time

By the way OP I think you're doing an excellent job in a difficult situation

It sounds to me like you are dealing with a very difficult situation quite admirably! It's terrible that ex is not addressing the issues with DC, being a fair weather parent is entirely unfair and since it sounds as if the break up was instigated by him, he needs to step up and take some responsibility. All well and good of course, since it sounds like he won't. I don't really have much advice to offer except to second the need for a physical outlet for his anger like martial arts, or swimming or athletics or similar. for you OP, you're making the best of a bad situation

Also, it's the legal fees that are reducing my available income too. I am looking into litigation loans though as ex has intiated court proceedings and my solicitor has estimated my costs to be £21,000 if it goes to court!

Sounds like you're doing a brilliant job. I think the iPod situation was handled really well.

Terrifying watching children rage like that isn't it?

Wow! What an amazing mum you are! If you aren't confident in your parenting ability, god help the rest of us! Keep being the emotionally stable, mature influence that you are, your Ex has shown himself to not be anywhere near how good are and frankly that won't change so expecting him to say or do the right thing is pissing in the wind.
Your DS and your DD will get over this, thanks to you.
Great post. I really agree with this.

It strikes me that your ex wants to only have happy times with the children, leaving you to deal with the difficult, upsetting stuff. And that's not on.

Can you and your ex sit down with the children to talk about things? You shouldn't have to be the bad news parent while he gets to play happy families. You're handling things so well, but you can't carry on like this, it's not fair on you or your children. And, to be frank, why the fuck should he get away with ducking the difficult bits of life?

It sounds like you are doing a very admirable job under dreadful circumstances.

Your ex is an utter piece of shit. Having an affair, causing the marriage break up, refusing to pay maintenance for his kids, forcing them out of their home. I'm surprised YOU aren't screaming and ranting as well.

Would it be an option for the ex to pay the mortgage so you could continue living there? I'm guessing not as that would entail actually showing some care and concern for his own children, something he obviously doesn't know how to do so isn't likely to start now.

DD ... threatening never to see Ex ever again because she thinks it's all his fault)
DD is right. She might only be nine, but she's got her father sized up correctly.

The reason ex doesn't want to discuss it with the kids is
A - it's hard - easier to avoid
B - he will be worried at the back of his mind that the kids will blame him and want to see less of him

You're doing a great job. Correct thing to do with iPod. He needs to feel secure in your scaffolding at a time when he has never felt less secure. Keep with the boundaries.

When you hand them over to him, can you say "Daddy is going to have a good chat to you today about the whole situation" in front of him? Force his hand slightly?

HUgs and OP. Your ex sounds like a self absorbed douche bag.

Your ds is angry about all the shit that is happening to him over which he has no control. It is totally typical that this anger will come out over seemingly small incidents - think straw that broke the camel's back. I suggest that, when this happens, you don't escalate things by punishing him (calm down time in room is fine). He needs this anger to come out, not be pushed down.

Califlower and when he then doesn't, how will that help the OP's kids?

Ex is paying the mortgage, although house is in both our names the mortgage is only in his (long story, doesn't affect my rights) and it's massive repayments so I'd have no hope of ever being able to pay it. Luckily there's lots of equity in the house still so I should be able to buy somewhere else once sold.

Ex has never had to deal with the emotional fallout of all this, I don't think they've ever broken down on him like they do me. He wouldn't know how to handle it if they did. When I reminded him last night that it's always me that gets the shit end of the stick emotionally, he jumped in with if I can't handle them emotionally then he'll have them. That's his response pretty much to anything if I say I or they are struggling.
He ended our conversation by saying he will parent them how he sees fit when they are with him and I am not to question it.

How the hell do I deal with someone like that? That's what scares me, I'm now having to co-parent with someone I can't even talk to or be in the same room as and we don't share the same values. And he's been through all this himself at exactly the same as DS is now - his dad had an affair and left his mum. He has always claimed it didn't bother him a bit though!

You're handling this well, it's hard for the DC to see their life change. And you are also going through a bereavement of sorts - you no longer have the future you thought you had and the man you trusted turn d out to be unworthy of your live.

Some things I learnt in

Never talk negatively about ex even when you're seething inside. What he did was shitty, you can tell the children facts in a straightforward way.

Be very matter of fact - yes we would like to carry on living here but its not possible. Won't it be exciting to move to a new house, you can choose paint colours, get a new teddy for your bedroom, etc.

Don't tell the DC about the options you have or decisions you're having to make. For example I wouldn't have explained to them that they could stay in house but move school. For anything that you are deciding on, talk it over with a friend or family. Tell the DC only after you have made the decision and present it as a positive (and don't tell them what the other options were).

Let some of the smaller stuff go with your DC. Don't worry about spoiling them just now - you can start to get stricter again slowly but just give them a bit of time to adjust. Plus school holidays don't help as they are all out of routine.

As much as he should - don't ask your ex to talk to the DC or have a word etc. He does not sound supportive and will be very much in minimising mode, because he won't want to accept his actions have been negative for the DC wellbeing. It's stressful for you that he isn't thinking about them. However life will be easier for you when you come to accept that you have no control over what he does or says and let it go. He will parent the way he sees best and you will parent the way you see best. Barring any actual neglect, you have to let him get on with it otherwise you'll stress yourself out and that has a negative effect on your interactions with your DC.