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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not know how to deal with DS' behaviour post-split?

60 replies

CarrieMayBe · 13/08/2017 08:38

Split with EXH at Christmas, he had an affair and left me. Total shock for our children, they had no idea it was coming, he literally sat them down and told him he was leaving. DCs are 9 and 7.

DD(9) was hysterical, full on screaming, begging him to stay etc. Has struggled to deal with it at times since but always opens up to me and talks it through, we have spent hours and hours talking and it definitely helps her even though I have no answers really to her questions but I try.

DS(7) was initially upset but soon got over it, I knew at the time it was far too quick and that he wasn't really processing it. He's much quieter than DD but I know it's all ticking away inside his head. He does talk about stuff but not for long and nowhere near as deeply as DD does.

Anyway, they're in a good routine of seeing Ex, they stay with him 3 nights out of 14 and have a close relationship with him. Always happy to go to his, happy when they come back mainly although DS started playing up a bit when they came home about 2 months ago. Nothing major, just being clingy at bedtime and would want to have me to himself for a bit, sometimes engineering an argument with his sister to get attention etc. As soon as I became aware that this was what he was doing I tried to accommodate his needs and would head it off before it began by having some time alone with him so he didn't feel the need to create a situation just to get me alone. All going reasonably well at this point.

On Monday, I had to tell the children that the marital home (which we are still living in) is going to have to be sold. We've only been here just over a year and it was a big deal to them moving here in the first place as they'd always lived in the same house until that point and didn't want to move. But, they settled well and love it here. We have an enormous garden and they spend all their time out there climbing trees and building dens. Wherever we end up moving to won't have anything like they have here and they know that. DD did her usual, major dramatics and hysterics (3hr long meltdown, threatening never to see Ex ever again because she thinks it's all his fault) but got it all out of her system and has been quite pragmatic about it. She has spent a lot of time talking to me about her worries and is dealing with it ok. DS on the other hand, cried then went outside and kicked everything in sight. He has been so angry ever since, his anger has been increasing lately anyway - mainly in his reactions to petty arguments with his sister, he will quickly go from nothing to crying with rage - but this week it has gone off the scale.

Yesterday, it culminated in the mother of all meltdowns. As usual, it started with a petty argument over which of them were going to tidy away the toys they had both been playing with. DS felt he should only put away the toys he had actually got off the shelf, regardless of whether or not he had played with them. I didn't agree with this, he wasn't budging though. He refused to come out of the room he was in to do so, repeatedly telling me 'no'. I did eventually get him to go to his room to calm down, he was already very angry at this point. Once I'd left him for a while I went in to see him and calmly explained that he needed to come and help tidy up. Again, he refused but was crying and shouting at me so I removed his iPod and told him he could have it back when he'd tidied up.

This was like a red rag to a bull and all hell broke loose. I tried not to engage, just repeated that he could have it back when he'd done as I asked. It just escalated from there, he was beside himself and I've never seen him like he was. He was red in the face, tears just streaming out of his eyes without any sobbing as such, just pure rage. He did somehow manage to tidy up amidst much shouting that he hates his life and everybody in it. DD was crying by this point too as she was so shocked by what was happening.

At one point I grabbed him and sat him on my lap and tried to just cuddle him in close whilst calmly telling him it was ok, I was there and I would hold him and help him calm down but he was screaming that I was hurting him - I definitely wasn't, I loosened my grip and was barely making contact - and he got away. I was crying too by this point as his behaviour scared me, he was hitting out at me and I didn't know how to handle it. He managed to grab his iPod out of my pocket and ran off to his room with it.

I rang my best friend just to ask for advice and she talked me through and calmed me down. I went to talk to DS and explained how this can't continue, look at what it had escalated into and that it wasn't acceptable. I didn't remove his iPod as I knew it would kick off again so calmly told him if he gave it to me then he could have it back after 24hrs. If I had to take it from him then he would lose it for a week. He ranted about it but eventually handed it over.

I then had to try and get some food into him as they were being picked up shortly by ex to stay at his for the night. DS didn't really want to eat but picked at it, I sat down next to him and spoke to him about what had happened and he totally broke down. He said how he likes going to his dad's but wants me to go there with him too. He wants us to get back together, he hates having 2 houses...all the usual stuff. He desperately doesn't want to move. It's like everything he has been feeling for the past 8 months is now coming out and I don't know how to deal with it

Ex told me on Weds that he would speak to the children about the house move when they went to his that night. He didn't do it, claiming they were fine and happy at his and didn't want to upset them. I can't help feeling that his refusal to broach the issue (and he's done this before, when DD was struggling after he left he promised to talk to her but didn't bother), is down to feeling guilty that he has caused this and I'm certain it's because he can't deal with seeing them upset. He is extremely emotionally stunted himself so it's no surprise to me.

However, I feel that by him ignoring what's going on in their lives it's like he's separating their two worlds even further. Like 'you're upset at home but here you're ok' kind of thing? He's invalidating their feelings by ignoring the fact he knows they're upset about something - they know he knows - yet doesn't even mention it. Neither DC like talking to him about things, I don't really know why though.

I just don't know how to help my children through this. They've gone from happy, easy going children to, quite frankly, pretty fucked up children. I'm scared for them and for myself too as I don't feel confident enough in my parenting abilities to know the best way of dealing with this. Things are so acrimonious between ex and I, mostly due to difficulties with the divorce, and I feel he's just watching me and waiting to take the children off me. He has levelled all sorts at me about my capability to parent, all of which is bollocks, but it's at the back of my mind constantly when trying to deal with their behaviour.

There is an excellent family support worker at their school who has offered to get involved but neither child will agree to see her. They say they don't want to speak about it to anyone - I've tried and tried. They both know that I've been having therapy since the start of all this and that it helps me to talk it through with someone but even so, it's a firm no from them. I feel I have no choice though and will need one get her involved when they go back in September.

Please help me find a way through this, they are back from their dad's this evening and I want to start from today. I told DS before he left that tonight would be a fresh start with no repercussions from yesterday. I need to find a way where I don't give in to him but it cannot escalate like it did yesterday, it was insane and if I had neighbours then I'm certain SS would be on my doorstep tomorrow morning!

Sorry it's so long. Didn't want to drip feed.

OP posts:
OverOn · 13/08/2017 10:39

That's was a cross post there - it's really hard to coparent with someone like that. The thing is to find a way of accepting it's different and to let him parent the way he wants to.

He will see any attempts as 'interference' - he has had to completely minimised what he has done to you and the DC, to be able to get it straight in his head that what he has done is acceptable.

DorotheaHomeAlone · 13/08/2017 10:40

Not very useful as I know what you really want is advice but I have to each pps: you are doing really, really well. They are raging at you because they trust you. They know they can't rely on your ex. Ignore his input. Really. The reflection of you he's showing you is bullshit, forged entirely by his own guilt. Instead listen to posters here saying you did great. Even a bit of shouting is not that bad. You are only human and this sounds so hard. Keep those boundaries and look for a safe space for your son to release some of his anger and grief. Martial arts would be ideal but anything really physical would do as long as he's fully engaged. Flowers

DorotheaHomeAlone · 13/08/2017 10:41

And don't panic about the co-parenting yet. Yes, he's shit but time should smooth this a bit. When he feels less guilty he will probably stop being such a shit. Just keep calmly pressing forward.

Genghi · 13/08/2017 10:43

You have handled this well. You should never lie to your kids & they know the truth okay. They know this entire situation is your ex's fault and probably don't trust him enough to melt down with him.

HPandBaconSandwiches · 13/08/2017 11:23

Great advice from overon
My parents divorced when I was 7 and the hardest thing was the constant push and pull. Don't put any emotional baggage on to your kids OP - don't ask them to decide about things like schools, they're just too young.

From the perspective of 7 year olds bottling up emotions and having meltdowns, I have learnt quite a lot about this as my DS has struggled in a similar way after a life event. It's taken over 6 months to get back on an even keel. So what I've learned:
Don't sweat the small stuff - let anything other than injuries/violence/swearing all go. You'll hate it but honestly you have bigger fish to fry.
Have some quiet time every day - story at bed time and focus on just him.
Tell him you love him, often. When DS screams how much he hates me I just say it's ok, I love you enough for both of us.
Let him have something for downtime, whether that a book, or even (gasp) an Xbox or iPad.
Teach relaxation techniques/mindfulness - he's not too young.
Praise any hint of good behaviour.
Keep reminding yourself it's not you he's kicking out against, it's the situation. You are his safe place which is why he feels safe to lose it with you. Because he trusts you.
Drink wine and remind yourself this will pass.

I tried the firm boundaries line to begin with and it just made things so much worse.

Good luck OP

UnaPalomaBlanca · 13/08/2017 11:36

I think you are handling things very very very well.
In similar circumstances, I told my DS (9) to F off. Not proud but I have forgiven myself.
Many things came to mind as I read your post but here are 2 random thoughts.
Your son is expressing his rage about the situation. Don't they say that children show their darker side when they feel secure that they will still be loved and not rejected? They save their 'worst' for those who love them. Your son can get angry because in his subconscious he KNOWS you love him. He cannot show his father this side of him because he fears his father will reject him. No doubt he feels his father has already abandoned him???
Also, are you getting the single person rate for your council tax??

CarrieMayBe · 13/08/2017 12:23

So much excellent advice from everyone, thank you so much.

The only reason I mentioned moving schools to the children was because, when I informed ex that they were very upset about the house being put up for sale, he basically said it was all my fault for it allowing him to buy me out. That's why I told the children about the offer and why I couldn't accept it. I will not have him pinning all the blame on me.

He has already rewritten history - to the point where he insists and honestly believes that our marriage didn't end because he had an affair. 'Happy people don't have affairs' he tells me, I don't really have an opinion on that either way but he says our marriage has to end because I made him unhappy, the affair was just by-product of that and it would've ended anyway and therefore isn't his fault at all! There may a point in there but bottom line is, I caught him out and he decided to go. DCs don't know he had an affair btw, I have almost bitten my tongue off over the past 8 months covering his arse on that one - for their sakes, not his.

OP posts:
CarrieMayBe · 13/08/2017 12:27

The council tax discount - I also have 2 older DCs who are 21 and 17, eldest has very little to do with ex and the 17yo has been totally turned against me by ex which is a whole other thread in itself! Anyway, I'm not eligible for single person discount due to DS being an adult. He works full time and does pay me board but doesn't earn much so it's a token gesture really and doesn't go anywhere near covering my outgoings unfortunately.

I should've mentioned them in my opening post, sorry to drip feed.

OP posts:
VladmirsPoutine · 13/08/2017 12:55

Is he currently shacked up with OW then? Or renting elsehwhere if the dc don't know about the affair.
If I were you I'd come clean and admit to the dc in an age appropriate way that sometimes marriages fail when one party decided to fuck engage in extra marital affairs.

You are doing so much mental hard work and gymnastics. It's not your job to cover for your ex in that respect.

I salute you OP. Sorry I can't be of more help but I'm always here for a handhold and a moan whenever you wish.

ImperialBlether · 13/08/2017 13:01

I think any parent who just stops paying CM for no other reason than to punish their partner should get a prison sentence. It's disgraceful that they can do that.

paintingbutterflies · 13/08/2017 13:08

I would be honest with them, I think.

GeorgeTheHamster · 13/08/2017 13:29

I am in a similar (but much less difficult) situation OP and I think you are doing pretty much everything right. I agree with other posts saying go easy on yourself. But I don't understand why you are covering up his affair. They'll find out in the end and be angry with you for hiding it, unless it is already over perhaps.

TheDevilMadeMeDoIt · 13/08/2017 13:54

OP one thing stands out that hasn't been addressed yet is are you sure the house has to be sold? It's the family home and the children are settled and at school. I thought it would normally be part of the divorce settlement that you were allowed to stay there until the children were 18 ? And the court would determine how the mortgage was to be paid. What's your solicitor saying about that?

Your STBXH sounds toxic and he isn't going to play nicely, so the best thing may well be to let the court decide on the details.

As for the difficulties your DS is going through, you said you wanted him to do his share of tidying up so that it was fair on DD. Fair doesn't always mean equal. Can you talk to DD and explain to her that he's coping (or not) with the split in a different way to her, and that for a while you might have to cut him a bit of slack? As long as you explain to her that you are still there to spend time with her when she wants to cry or just have a cuddle, and make time to do things with her too, would she be able to recognise his needs and accept it?

CarrieMayBe · 13/08/2017 13:58

He ended the affair when I caught him, he then spent almost 6 weeks making his mind up whether to leave me or not Sad whilst I begged and pleaded with him not to rip our family - and our childrens' lives - apart. I wasn't allowed to bring the affair up during that time as that was then proof that I would never let it drop and only strengthened his resolve that we couldn't make things work. Meanwhile, my weight dropped to 5.5 stone, I had a chronic chest infection that wouldn't shift and my gp wanted to admit me to hospital just to get me away from the situation. In short, I was a mess.

When he eventually told me he was leaving, it was a week before Christmas. None of the children knew so I then told our eldest 2. He refused to leave until Christmas was over so I had to pretend that everything was normal for our youngest children, plus to my family, for Christmas Day and Boxing Day and he eventually left on the 27th. I then had to pull myself together to get the children through their devastation despite the state I was in and I've had to handle everything ever since. Eldest 2 know he had an affair, I didn't tell the youngest ones because I believed that in their minds because he hadn't left me for OW (I have no idea whether they're in touch again now, I don't know who she is only that she was married too and they were shagging for 6 months behind my back) they wouldn't be able to make sense of why he'd left me but not for her. DD confirmed my belief this week when we were discussing why marriages end and she brought up a few people we know who have had affairs. She said she knew her dad wouldn't have done anything like that as she has never seen anyone else at his house. What could I say then?

OP posts:
CarrieMayBe · 13/08/2017 14:03

House needs to be sold, definitely. It is huge with 3 acres of garden and I cannot afford to maintain the house and don't have the time or, quite frankly, the energy to keep on top of the garden. He can't afford to buy me out unless I take far less than I would be entitled to in the settlement and, as selfish as that sounds, I'm not prepared to do so. I don't have a pension, neither does he but he earns at least 8x what I earn and he can make up whatever he loses in this divorce, I can't. My financial future is pretty screwed and he is responsible for this mess.

OP posts:
ImperialBlether · 13/08/2017 14:37

It might have been easier if you'd told the younger children why you were splitting up. I think they need a reason; it's such a difficult thing to understand otherwise.

I've been where you are, right up to the Christmas Day situation - I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

notapizzaeater · 13/08/2017 14:39

He's a dick for not paying his cms - any idea how long before they enforce it ?

CarrieMayBe · 13/08/2017 14:48

In hindsight, I wish I had told them what he'd done. At the time, I was barely functioning and I was so scared it would ruin their relationship with him, I was trying to protect both them and him.

I should hear from CMS within a couple of weeks hopefully. However, as DH runs his own company, I am fairly sure I will have to go back and request a variation so they take his dividends into account as these aren't always considered when making an award. And believe me, he is manipulating his accounts in a deliberate attempt to plead poverty. He forgets I lived with him for over 20yrs and know exactly how his finances are conducted Grin

OP posts:
vikingprincess81 · 13/08/2017 14:49

Oh sweetheart, very unmumsnetty hug from me too Flowers
As a pp says, they're raging at you because you're the safe person. You only let your guard down with people you trust - which is why your dcs don't do it in front of their father.
Just wanted to chime in with some support. You're doing a great job, even when the horrible scary things like rages happen. Stay loving and don't beat yourself up too much. You've had a shitty time of things recently. Seconding the pp who suggested contacting his parents - wouldn't they be horrified their son wasn't supporting their grandchildren? I know it's not mumsnet approved to involve gps but if it gives him the kick up the arse he so obviously needs...
FlowersWineCake

CarrieMayBe · 13/08/2017 14:50

Imperial I'm also so sorry you went through the same. I look back now and wonder a) why I let him put me through that - it was easy for him as he just withdrew to another room for the whole 2 days, taking the children with him so I was left with elderly relatives alone pretty much and didn't see the children hardly! And b) how the hell did I get through it? I wouldn't be able to now I don't think, I think I was just going through the motions in a fog of 'WTF??' if I'm honest.

OP posts:
CarrieMayBe · 13/08/2017 15:01

With regards to MIL, I am trying to withdraw from there as much as I can at the moment because she constantly talks about him when I'm with her and I honestly don't want to hear about him, I don't care. She also makes jokes about how she does all his washing and ironing (he refuses to buy a washing machine) and she fails to see how pathetic that makes him sound. At the beginning when she heard of his affair she was amazing, totallly my rock because I hadn't told another soul. She supported me, was beyond angry with him and really helped me through those early days because she had been exactly where I was - even down to it happening to us both at the same age, similar ages DCs.

Then, he left, and it all changed. She was absolutely fine towards me and still supportive but there was a definite shift in how she was being. I think he'd barely spoken to her before he left me because he was ashamed so she hadn't heard much from him. After he left, I believe he filled her full of so much shit about me and continues to do so. She has also repeated things I have said to her to him which he has twisted and used against me in our divorce so I find it very difficult to talk to her now incase I ever say the wrong thing.

He will have told her I have more than enough to live on. She has always, always given me money for my birthday, this year she gave me a present which was worth way less than half the amount she would normally have given me in cash. I don't care but I'm certain he would've told her not to give me any money as I have more than enough already. I walk on eggshells around her so I'm finding it easier not to bother seeing her. Made easy because she never asks to see the DCs, he rarely takes them to hers either and she never really bothered with them when we were together anyway.

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 13/08/2017 15:09

As pp said think carefully about what you telling them..what is grown up issue and what is children s concern?

This I learned from family therapy sessions .

Answer their questions but really decisions about houses are. Not for dc to make or be involved in until it's this will be your new bedroom what colour curtains do you want....

Their behaviour is their way of communicating their upset and anger and insecurity over the situation.
Go easy. What if things don't get tidied? Maybe they don't go In that room to watch tv because its messy. Make them own it.
Get ds a punchbag to kick at or point him to a cushion

Read "how to talk so kids will listen..." it has some good ideas and strategies .
Acknowledge their upset. Yes this is a lovely house and we had some great times didn't we?
But you are both growing up and a new smaller house and garden will be better because easier and I will have more time and money to do other things with you like xxxx and. Yyyyyy.

I think it s better you get to stay at the same school and a smaller house if fine for us. You will still get to spend time with dad too.

Speak to your therapist for ideas . are they a family therapist ? Ask for referral to a family therapist you would go to with dd and ds

You need to be selling it to them and showing you feel happy about the move ..it will be positive for you and a home is you and dc not the tree in the Gadsden..if he likes climbing are there climbing walls nearby ?

Remember that whatever dad has done he is still their dad and dc love their dad whatever. They too young to handle the In as and outs ...remember some things are adult discussions and should not be involving the dc.

Speak to gp about family therapy and also separated parenting courses locally .

You doing well. You can move forward more calmly.
Talk to your therapist about how you can have strategies to not let your ex take up so much of your thoughts , however difficult that is. E.g. You might allocate yourself specific times of day where you addres practical and financial issues to do with ex. Don't let him impinge on your whole life . You have a new better life to lead.

CarrieMayBe · 13/08/2017 15:24

That is exactly how I have handled the moving issue...it will be exciting finding a new house, they can choose their bedroom colours, we will have more spare money to have holidays etc. I really have made it sound a positive experience despite their protests...honestly I have.

I agree that if the room doesn't get tidied then it's not the end of the world. However, yesterday it was DDs bedroom and she wanted things put away before they went to their Dad's. She was willing to do her bit but didn't see why she should do it all and I have to say I agree with her. I can handle it better though and will endeavour to do so from now on.

Family therapy definitely something I am going to look into. My therapist, whilst lovely, isn't much use if I'm honest other than to remind me who I have in my life that I can turn to. That's all we seem to focus on.

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 13/08/2017 17:18

But they won't be finding the house.
You will.
So they don't get a say which house you choose . That's the adult decision.
So you tell them when decision is made...i mean it s fine they know now but to avoid anxiety don't say more until it's concrete and you say this house is the one we moving on x date.

cestlavielife · 13/08/2017 17:20

The adult decision is choosing and finding the hpuse to suit your budget. Tge dc dont get to choose the house.
Their decision follows after In terms of . Paint colour in their room .