To wonder if Nazi Germany felt like the UK does now, when they were creeping into power?

[oneggshellsforever]

Transformations in the justice system are happening, stacking the odds against disabled people having a fair hearing when they appeal sanctions or having disability benefits turned down.

They're getting rid of in person tribunals, and getting rid of expert panel members.

Disabled people are often successful when it goes to appeal, so the government seem to be systematically stripping the legal system of a fair trial?

Will start happening in October. What the government is doing to disabled people, and people with very little money in general, is chilling me to the bone. I honestly wonder if the feeling in the atmosphere was like this in 1930's Germany.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/oct/12/online-benefits-appeals-tribunals-disabled

BananasAreGood Excellent post.
Othering and the abolition of empathy are stages in a process, not the end goal.

"I sometimes fear that
people think that fascism arrives in fancy dress
worn by grotesques and monsters
as played out in endless re-runs of the Nazis.
Fascism arrives as your friend.
It will restore your honour,
make you feel proud,
protect your house,
give you a job,
clean up the neighbourhood,
remind you of how great you once were,
clear out the venal and the corrupt,
remove anything you feel is unlike you...
It doesn't walk in saying,
"Our programme means militias, mass imprisonments,
transportations, war and persecution."

Michael Rosen

A similarity that does worry me is that some of the impacts of austerity are being blamed on immigrants which has encouraged increasing xenophobia e.g. can't get a doctor's appointment blame immigrants not funding cuts.

I do believe that those who can contribute to society should but I also believe we have a duty to look after the vulnerable in society.

I agree entirely with the sentiments in the Michael Rosen poem but I can't honestly say that I have commonly heard people say that the UK would be better off without people with disabilities.
Perhaps it is commonly held belief, but people wouldn't say it to me because there is disability in my own family?

People didn't vote 'against' people with disabilities when they voted for Brexit

I said to the assessor, initial, that I my son only had an Irish passport, but was clearly British by dent of his birth certificate, he advised me to get him a renewal on his British passport as well (mine is up to date).

@araiwa You might be my favourite poster on this forum. It's perhaps not the greatest endorsement for you because I am an idiot but make of it what you will.

I agree with Op and others that are seeing a clear warning of the direction our country is going. Wearing blinkers and putting fingers on the ears going lalala is not going to change that direction. The erosion of human rights, the erosion of legal representation and assistance, the persecution of the disabled, the chipping away from our children's eduation, health, public sector, the channeling of mass negative thought on those needing benefits. The othering of the British Islamic section of our population, and so on, all paints a very dark picture, very reminiscent of the National Socialist movement of 1930's Germany.

Aw, thanks @hackmum. That's really sweet. I'm having a shit day, and you cheered me up.

Can I just add another idea to the mix: political ideologies as applied to parties aren't terribly stable, defined things (a look at the history of the Labour party over the last 30 years tells us this!). Also, there is an extra-parliamentary politics that is in a kind of constant dialogue with the policy-and-legal workings of our Parliament. For example, let's take the idea that there is a "given" white, racialised "Englishness" that maps to a particular geographic area and leads to a sense of dwelling/belonging mapping to blood and race. This is something that you do find in certain strands of mainstream party politics, as well as in groups like Britain First, the EDL, UKIP, but it also has a life "out there" in popular understandings of nation. (I don't think everyone attacking Mary Beard on Twitter for pointing to racial diversity as a long term feature of British history was a full-blown fascist, but there are some troubling assumptions behind their views nonetheless. Good piece from The Conversation on this here: theconversation.com/mary-beard-is-right-roman-britain-was-multi-ethnic-so-why-does-this-upset-people-so-much-82269 )

if people actully researched the begining of the nazi party the parallels are too close to bear thinking about.

I am not saying britian is like the peak of nazism but it certianly starting to make disabled people feel less equal and are actully demonized benifet street anyone?

How the fuck do you people think the nazis started? killing jews / undesarbles on mass? No they started slow making them other dehumanising them aka sort of like what the daily mail and programs like benifet street are doing.

If this trend contines i would not be surpised if work houses dont make an appearence again, but i doubt we will go to the extermes the nazis went towards the end but its a slippery slope

Interesting point Bemusedandpuzzled.

I'm a fan of that Michael Rosen poem, I was trying to search for it earlier but couldn't remember who it was by.

Every time I see a thread like this (over the last few years at least) the comparison seems a little less ludicrous. I'm beginning to wonder if Godwin's Law is due for repeal.

Theresa May's 'hostile environment' probably belongs on this thread too.

I do think we need to distinguish between an authoritative version of Conservatism and actual fascism; it's not just a question of semantics.
I do agree about the 'othering' of vulnerable groups. But I'm far more worried about the likes of Farage than May.

As a disabled woman with a disabled child I say Calm the fuck down dear. Nazi Germany?!?! Fucks sake.

As a disabled person and someone who has family who survived the holocaust, I agree.

Interesting point Bemusedandpuzzled

It is.

I don't think it hurts to look around and question.

I do think we need to distinguish between an authoritative version of Conservatism and actual fascism

I actually typed authoritarian here. Bloody phone.

It's a very big difference between spitefully enforcing PIP/DLA policies, and loading the disabled into vans filled with carbon monoxide.

Before they got to that stage they employed medical professionals to either kill people in care homes or to provide treatment that would end life.

In contrast amputees who had lost limbs in either world war were given work and portrayed as heroes.

This distinction in to how you became disabled is happening now.

I have been saying for a number of years it feels like 1930s Germany.

I don't see a problem in theory with testing those who want to claim disability benefits to make sure they are genuinely unable to work. Some people do scam the system

Do you realise people are assessed at least every 3 years? They check if your leg has grown back or you have had more suicide attempts.

No body WANTS to claim disability benefits.

I've been thinking about this off and one, and am going to have to mention Brexit.

I think Hitler rose to power because he harnessed an enormously powerful fantasy - that Germany could become great again. A great many people who got caught up in this fantasy, able-bodied, straight, Aryan Germans - suffered as a result. They died in war, they became impoverished, their homes were bombed. At the end of the war many women were raped.

I'd say that a significant number of people in Great Britain have bought into the fantasy that we can become 'Great' again by turning our back on the EU and by severely limiting migration. It's a nationalist fantasy again. And while it is more vulnerable groups who are likely to suffer when the lie become apparent, everyone apart from the very rich - who have bases abroad - is likely to suff

Although I am not rich, I have been able to obtain dual nationality for myself and my daughter. My husband is also obtaining this. That way if/when things get too bad I have the option of leaving...

The parallels are there and it isn't particularly about the tory party. There are voices coming from all sections of our society that are worrying for what they say or for what they are trying to alert us about. Is this a road we are a long way down? No, but we must always always be alert to the possible outcomes our actions could result in. We must listen and look for the warnings signs.

The people of nazi Germany were not a different type of human to us. They are an example of what humans do given particular circumstances. Some of the mechanisms put in place after the second world war in order to help prevent future occurrences are under attack.

My grandmother was German and grew up under the nazis. There are many things she didn't learn the truth about until years later because the propaganda machine was so well oiled. That's because ideas are built on and built on, slowly. Once one idea seems reasonable you can move onto another.

Idea F might never get off the ground and seem preposterous.
Idea A not so bad.
Then idea B because it's an extension of A.
Idea C is a more cost effective version of B.
Idea D will remove the burden on the tax payer/family/society.
Idea E will make things fairer for those not affected by ideas A-D.
Idea F is how we will fix this now we've worked out the real problem is.

It can all happen really easily.

Don't forget that a lot of British people, academics and aristos in particular, without any government propaganda forcing them along this path, agreed with a lot of the Nazis ideologies, such as 'sterilisation of the unfit' (ie those with mental and physical disabilities). People don't have to be brainwashed into believing this stuff.

And what's with the attempts at silencing?

Is there evidence that people are materially poorer now than at previous points in British history?

Transformations in the justice system are happening, stacking the odds against disabled people having a fair hearing when they appeal sanctions or having disability benefits turned down.

They're getting rid of in person tribunals, and getting rid of expert panel members.

Disabled people are often successful when it goes to appeal, so the government seem to be systematically stripping the legal system of a fair trial?

So the complaint is that the government is spending less money on helping people appeal against being denied other government money? You do know socialism is just an optional bolt-on to democracy, it's a perfectly valid democratic position to say that it's not the governments job to make sure anyone has food, shelter, education or healthcare?

I'm not advocating the abolition of socialism in the UK, but you could abolish it and even democracy as well and we still wouldn't be anywhere near being Nazi Germany. The vast majority of non-democracies don't commit mass genocide.

@MorrisZapp

Is there evidence that people are materially richer than at previous points in British history?

Your point makes no sense. How many people are poorer/richer? How many people are supported with special needs or disabilities?

What we should be striving for is equality for all and equality of lifestyle too.

Oh and I'm about to apply for listed building status on my house. Anyone can do it.

I don't think people are materially poorer, but family links and communities aren't as strong, people don't have as much time, if you work you're expected to give it your all, even if it costs you family life, if you don't work you're a lazy scrounger, society is becoming more divisive, thanks to social media and Internet people can have ludicrous opinions and can find pockets of society to back them up which leads to more divisive and damaging attitudes.
Whilst we all have the gadgets and the trappings of a decent life, we are missing out on the things that should be more important.
In being super connected 24/7 through snapchat, FB, Twitter etc, we have lost the real connections. Even if this doesn't feel important right now, I feel sure that at some point this will affect things.