To wonder if Nazi Germany felt like the UK does now, when they were creeping into power?

[oneggshellsforever]

Transformations in the justice system are happening, stacking the odds against disabled people having a fair hearing when they appeal sanctions or having disability benefits turned down.

They're getting rid of in person tribunals, and getting rid of expert panel members.

Disabled people are often successful when it goes to appeal, so the government seem to be systematically stripping the legal system of a fair trial?

Will start happening in October. What the government is doing to disabled people, and people with very little money in general, is chilling me to the bone. I honestly wonder if the feeling in the atmosphere was like this in 1930's Germany.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/oct/12/online-benefits-appeals-tribunals-disabled

I do think that the government are in a position where they have a lot less respect for the situation that disabled people are in and that their position is geared up to stopping disabled people from being reliant on the state and able to 'stand on their own two feet' and that sometimes that leaves them with the rug pulled out from under them.

I don't think we will end up with the involuntary euthanasia of disabled people that happened in Nazi Germany, no. OP, I think you have a good underlying point but have lost a serious response from most people because of the link to Nazi Germany.

CockacidalManiac I couldn't agree more. Some of what I see from the left, even the "mainstream" left scares me. I say that as a former Labour voter (will never vote for them again until Corbyn is no longer in charge and they get their fucking act together to properly oppose Brexit).

I think this is an interesting question to ask as I do think that we must never fall into complacency.

As someone long term ill I have lived in very real terror of this government. If I lose my money I will be disabled and homeless basically due to no social housing. I think it is the insidious nature of what is going on at the moment. If you are well, able to work, have good support around you then all's pretty good (as good as any life is with it's ups and downs) and you would have no idea about what is happening to the disabled and sick, that they are being forced into greater and greater poverty, let alone the amount of stress that goes with living under a government who quite clearly couldn't give a stuff about you.

I said it on another thread but actually the first route to any sort of cleansing, be it ethnic or social, is to reduce that certain group of people to 'other' and somehow not human. Once that is done it is much easier to pass legislation that restricts their rights, their economic status. And the most terrifying thing is that due to the nature of this type of brainwashing most people won't see any problem with it. And that is what scares me most. That there seems to be no real shock or horror at what is being done to the disabled and long term ill from the general population. In fact one poster above said they weren't even aware of what was going on! In this age of media everywhere! I feel, along with others, forgotten and not anyone else's problem.

I also think this catstrophising approach is counter-productive too. As we can see on this thread, try to equate the 'othering' of the vulnerable with the rise Nazis just causes justified eye rolling. I feel that an approach to people's humanity and empathy is a far better approach than circulating memes with Theresa May in a black uniform.

I agree OP, there is a worrying trend in UK politics (and globally) right now and people ought to think carefully about what historically happens when certain groups get their rights diminished.

That ain't fascism. That's an extreme form of capitalism.

Doesn't matter so much if the end result is the same, is it?

And in any given system of oppression, most of those at the top will be in for the money and other advantages, not for the ideology itself.

Yes, you are being unreasonable and highly offensive and ignorant.

BananasAreGood brilliant post. People want to believe that the Nazis were somehow subhuman (interesting parallel with how they wished people to view Jewish people). But the most terrifying thing was they were ordinary people who over years and years of indoctrination and brainwashing had come to believe some quite awful things.

I really feel that pointing at the DSS and shouting 'fascists!' is ridiculous and counter productive. Like I've said, it leaves nowhere to go when the real thing turns up.

Conservatism isn't fascism. It just isn't.

I agree with Pacific - ignoring all the knee JERK responses and people who can't even debate (Cock being one of the exceptions) It is a conversation worth having

I do think there are parallels especially when it comes to the othering of different groups (Muslims and the disabled and poor people generally) which is a dangerous game to get into.

Do I think May is Hitler - no I don't

Do I think the Tory's are damaging society and targeting less powerful sections of society dangerously and unfairly - yes I do

To also add he was diagnosed with autism at the age of 4 because he wouldn't have been able to have an education otherwise, not in mainstream or special school. This full statement of educational needs still stands and is legal until he decides to give up full time education..

Isn't this exactly what Cabretta is about, everyone in denial, whilst fascism gets a hold.

We have just turned our back on Europe ffs

Hitting godwins law in the op leaves this thread with nowhere to go

Best post I've seen on this site.

I'm not pointing and shouting anything.

I gave a piece of factual information regarding the DWP and what is happening in the courts around the unacceptable death rate of disabled people.

CockacidalManiac are you an estate agent? They're the only people I know who refer to the DWP as the DSS. It shows you have little real experience with this subject and the erosion of disabled people's rights. I would suggest you read Banana's post which is incredibly intelligent and informed.

What does worry me is antidemocratic and authoritarian elements of all stripes. The influence of the print media in this country, especially the DM and its remarks about our independent judiciary and 'saboteurs'. The refusal to acknowledge any concerns about Brexit. The rise of click-bait populist bullshit such as the Canary.

They're the only people I know who refer to the DWP as the DSS. It shows you have little real experience with this subject and the erosion of disabled people's rights

My mistake. Doesn't lessen my arguments though.

And as I started this rather helpful long thread about my experiences as a PIP assessor, Chirpy., I'd have to ask:

What the fuck have you ever done?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2764894--to-give-people-assistance-with-claiming-PIP

This is absolutely a debate worth having.

People are dependent on a roof over their heads because of disability and wanting to live an independent life.

I want my son to be independent. But at least he has a home to come back to. Either me or his dad.

I agree with you OP, we're moving very close to some of what the Nazis did.

Some of the people insulting you here clearly have no idea of the struggles and persecution happening to disabled people in this country.

Banana's post rings scarily true.

Whether anybody agrees or disagrees with the OP's sentiment, what's the need to shout her down?

It IS an interesting question.

Hitler and his lot were democratically elected.
Of course things are not 'the same', nobody said they are. There is a slow creep of nationalism, populism, opinion shouted loud enough being accepted as fact and seemingly less of a feeling of solidarity in society towards those seen as 'other'. I find it chilling.

Any -ism scares me, whether coming from the left, the right or some form of religious corner.