To wonder if Nazi Germany felt like the UK does now, when they were creeping into power?

[oneggshellsforever]

Transformations in the justice system are happening, stacking the odds against disabled people having a fair hearing when they appeal sanctions or having disability benefits turned down.

They're getting rid of in person tribunals, and getting rid of expert panel members.

Disabled people are often successful when it goes to appeal, so the government seem to be systematically stripping the legal system of a fair trial?

Will start happening in October. What the government is doing to disabled people, and people with very little money in general, is chilling me to the bone. I honestly wonder if the feeling in the atmosphere was like this in 1930's Germany.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/oct/12/online-benefits-appeals-tribunals-disabled

It's sad very sad, but to blame the benefit system is ridiculous. There are many things in life that are extremely stressful but avoiding stress only make things worse in the long term, teaching resiliency and how to cope with stressful events, even with mental health issues, is the best way to make sure sufferers don't end up taking drastic actions.

Only someone with no personal experience of serious Mental Illness could say this. I was medical retired from the NHS with MH problems, that's not easy to do; perhaps I should have been more resilient.
People are able to tolerate different stress levels. I now work 20 hours a week in retail. I'm lucky enough to have insight into how much stress through work I can experience before becoming seriously unwell again, I'm lucky enough to able to work in some capacity while undertaking a OU degree. I'm lucky to not have a constant psychotic Illness, and to spot when I'm heading downhill.
The main word here is luck. Anyone can be unlucky enough to become ill or disabled, yet the attitude displayed here is all to do with weakness of character; all it takes is for people to be taught resilience and hey presto! They're well again. You can teach all the resilience you want to a diabetic, they won't produce more insulin. You can try and teach as much resilience as you want to someone with a mental illness, it won't change their brain chemistry.

Only someone with no personal experience of serious Mental Illness could say this
Wrong. I've suffered from severe enough depression to have to be taken to hospital so I do know exactly what it is like. I have also worked with people suffering from mental health problems and taught sufferers how to cope with stressors. It was a very rewarding job.

Of course there are sufferers who are ill beyond this sort of support. Sufferers who are not just too poorly to work but also too poorly to take part in any enjoyable activities. However, these are not the sufferers who get turned down for benefits and who believe that they have it as bad as those who live under the Nazi regime.

that's not easy to do
Oh I do agree with that fully. It is not easy to do at all, as a matter of fact, it's probably one of the hardest thing one has to do in their lives, but then so are man other things. I suspect learning to walk as a toddler wasn't easy to do, but it didn't stop us taking that step, and then taking it again after a fall and persevering until it became second nature.

Thinking something is hard doesn't make it impossible, just that, hard.

The main word here is luck
No it isn't. It's easy to assume that those who manage are just lucky because you don't see how much they battle every day to cope.

This is exactly why some people don't ever get better. Because they rather blame others for what is happening to them, convince themselves there is nothing they can do about their situation, and that everyone else who manages is just lucky.

You can try and teach as much resilience as you want to someone with a mental illness, it won't change their brain chemistry.
Actually it can, but I do agree that for a number of sufferers, it has nothing to do with resilience. For a large number though, it does.

Mrs Hoolies Ive seen you post about that young woman before Heartbreaking.

However, these are not the sufferers who get turned down for benefits

You're just wrong. I've assessed people for PIP who, having been refused a home visit by Capita, have sat throughout the clinic interview sobbing and holding onto a relative for dear life. Horribly distressed. When I had finished my report and submitted it, it was returned to me telling me to downgrade my scores as 'they can't have been that unwell if they'd made it to clinic', or 'they aren't being seen often enough by the CMHT to explain their symptoms'. All returned to my by some twat who hadn't even sat in on the interview. I've been a nurse for 25 years; I fucking know distress when I see it.
It wasn't once either. It was several times a week, each time the pressure was to downgrade the scores for some bullshit reason. I couldn't do that to these people, so I quit. No doubt someone else was prepared to do that, but it went against my NMC code of conduct and personal ethics. I could use other examples, and this was just my experience, in the few short weeks that I could actually do the job. I was so angry that I went to the press, and was interviewed (identity disguised) by the BBC.
So don't try to tell me that everyone gets what they deserve, because the system is set up to ensure that this does not happen. It's immoral.

No it isn't. It's easy to assume that those who manage are just lucky because you don't see how much they battle every day to cope.

You are twisting my words to aid your poor argument. I consider myself lucky to be well enough to work in some capacity. You don't think that also involves a battle on my part?
I don't consider other people lucky to survive with a mental illness, I imagine they fight a constant battle too.

Similar to David Clapson only this time its Universal Credit.

twitter.com/Wizard_of_loz/status/893220713460641793

You can teach all the resilience you want to a diabetic, they won't produce more insulin. You can try and teach as much resilience as you want to someone with a mental illness, it won't change their brain chemistry

Very well put.

That must have been horrible to do that job (PIP assessor) and be told to do things against your conscience and ethics, and then for people to claim that those kind of things don't happen in assessments and people that are truly vulnerable aren't bring made to suffer must be a real kick in the teeth.

Oh Swingofthings, the more you post the more I can see your fragility stamped through you like a stick of rock, hiding in an outward attitude of smugness and sanctimony. Because it makes you feel ten times better about yourself to parrot this:

"This is exactly why some people don't ever get better. Because they rather blame others for what is happening to them, convince themselves there is nothing they can do about their situation, and that everyone else who manages is just lucky. "

I am very glad for you that you were the right sort of mentally ill, that with jolly hard work you could buck up your ideas and now are managing ok.

Not everyone is as "lucky" as you.

As for this::

"Sufferers who are not just too poorly to work but also too poorly to take part in any enjoyable activities" - this is disgusting ablist bullshit.

So if you are ill or disabled enough not to work, you must never take part in anything enjoyable?

That must have been horrible to do that job (PIP assessor) and be told to do things against your conscience and ethics, and then for people to claim that those kind of things don't happen in assessments and people that are truly vulnerable aren't bring made to suffer must be a real kick in the teeth.

Thank you. I think I'm going to have to leave and hide this thread. It's making me angry.

www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/24223

For sick or disabled claimants waiting months for a Work Capability Assessment, CPAG told the DWP Select Committee that the consequences of UC are quite severe, “because the way in which conditionality works has been altered...someone waiting to be assessed under the work capability assessment on UC, who has been handing in medical certificates, can still be required to spend all their time doing work search and be work available... It is people who are very unwell and it causes them an awful lot of anxiety because they are constantly worried that if they cannot keep up with the treadmill of applying for jobs, they will face a sanction"

Halton Housing Trust cited an example of a tenant in this position, “who was suffering from breast cancer and was in receipt of quite intensive chemotherapy, and she was sanctioned because she was unable to use the full 35 hours a week to find work because she was physically unable to".

HelenaDove that is insane - expecting someone having chemotherapy to spend 35 hours a week job hunting.

My mum had chemo and although she was well enough to drive to and from it herself, she was exhausted and sick. Needed a lot of rest.

I saw an interview with a young bloke in his 20s who was recovering from cancer

He said that fighting the benefits system was worse than fighting the cancer and that it might have been easier to just succumb to it.

I cant find the interview now but i can see his point.

Thank you. I think I'm going to have to leave and hide this thread. It's making me angry.
Just as it made me angry to read that someone could have the audacity to compare life on benefits in this country with life being persecuted by the nazi.

Ironically, I'm actually known to be a very caring person and indeed, when someone is ill, I'll go out of my way to support them. However, I am tired of those claiming to be 'severely anxious' when they are so clearly selective of what makes them anxious. Like a friend -well used to be friend - who wasn't happy when she came off Income Support when her child turned 5, made it clear that she wasn't going to go and get a job (because all she could have got in minimum wage and she wasn't prepared to work 16 hours to get hardly more than what she got not working), and therefore declared herself 'severely anxious' because she was now expected to get a job.

She too would get very distressed when she had to deal with letters, had to do to the job center, or when her ex told her that he wasn't going to continue paying maintenance for their eldest child who had left college. However, she suffered no anxiety at all when she took her three kids alone to Florida (paid by her parents), nor when she drove to see her then boyfriend 5 hours away in stormy conditions (but she claimed she was too anxious to drive to the job centre), nor when she went on dates with men she met online (but she claimed she got distressed when she had to deal with people she'd never met before).

She too failed her ESA claims and she too tells everyone who wants to hear that the system is persecuting her. It's people like this I have issues with, not people who are so poorly, all they can think of is how they are going to kill themselves, or those who have been hit by difficult times, but after help from the system for a limited time, get back on their feet and look at supporting themselves again.

^^ No cure for stupidity yet I take it?

swing thats ONE person.

So if you are going to say or assume that all claimants are the same then am i allowed to say that all those that work in the medical profession are serial killers or butchers based on Harold Shipman and Ian Paterson? If i posted a thread saying this people would be.........WTF?

But try and tar all those lower down the socio economic scale with the same brush based on a couple of cases and no one bats an eyelid.

Its definately a class problem.

I often wonder what people who deny there's issues with politics, with polarisation, demonisation of groups, othering and downright nastiness in the air at the moment aren't seeing. Is it deliberately not seeing, not being affected by it or am I just seeing and feeling what they're not?

Yes - in some ways, life is much better today than it once was. There has been real gains made in acceptance of minority groups, reducing discrimination and in health care. But at the same time, things are going backwards in other areas.

I am worried about the UK at the moment. I look at the USA and there are parallels between us and the USA. Trump has many core supporters with beliefs strongly similar to UKIP over here. Luckily we had an election where Theresa May did not get the overwhelming majority she wanted and we have a decent opposition with many good MPs. I shudder to think what would have happened if she had got a large majority.

We have to keep an eye on our rights.

We have to condemn and tackle people who threaten people online. I can't believe what has happened to Gina Miller. No one should threaten others. What happened to Jo Cox was awful and I do put that down to all the rhetoric around Brexit.

I don't want the UK to become like Trump's USA.

Thank you. I think I'm going to have to leave and hide this thread. It's making me angry.

Just as it made me angry to read that someone could have the audacity to compare life on benefits in this country with life being persecuted by the nazi. (Based on one example).

No one has said that though. They have constantly said that it's the start of a slippery slope, probably more like 1920s Germany was. Many people then were warning that things were going in an ugly direction. Probably equal numbers said that no, Germany was far too civilised for anything bad to happen. But it did.

What do people think about the clause included in the 'Great Repeal Bill' which removes the right of citizens to sue the government if they fail to comply with UK law?

Amy Siskind has documented the changes in US, Perhaps we should document them here, systematically, they have been creeping up on us in plain sight.

Absolutely.

Probably equal numbers said that no, Germany was far too civilised for anything bad to happen. But it did.

Yes, they did.

Read the 'The Hare with the Amber Eyes' - events in Vienna described using the example of the author's family.

The UN Inquiry into the Rights of Persons with Disabilities in the UK

researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7367#fullreport

We as a country failed and then rejected the findings and this government are not going to change a damn thing

www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/08/laura-pidcock-dont-ruin-christmas-pause-rollout-universal-credit

HelenaDove CAB are also publicly calling for the roll-out of UC to be halted until major issues are fixed. They have clout with the government but usually do things through quiet cordial meetings. Looks like that hasn't worked this time.