To wonder if Nazi Germany felt like the UK does now, when they were creeping into power?

[oneggshellsforever]

Transformations in the justice system are happening, stacking the odds against disabled people having a fair hearing when they appeal sanctions or having disability benefits turned down.

They're getting rid of in person tribunals, and getting rid of expert panel members.

Disabled people are often successful when it goes to appeal, so the government seem to be systematically stripping the legal system of a fair trial?

Will start happening in October. What the government is doing to disabled people, and people with very little money in general, is chilling me to the bone. I honestly wonder if the feeling in the atmosphere was like this in 1930's Germany.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/oct/12/online-benefits-appeals-tribunals-disabled

As for what happened to the mentally ill, it's too disturbing to contemplate. Same goes for unmarried mothers.

Politicians and high profile campaigners of every stripe have always been a target

Where?
When?

All over the world, throughout history? Or are you seriously suggesting that harassment and violence against public figures is a new phenomenon?

You what? People have literally died because their benefits were cut off.
This is what the media love to sell, perfect sensationalism and people are feeding right into it.

People die because they suffer from severe mental illnesses. You could give them £5000 a year and many would still die. My friend jumped from a bridge because she couldn't take the voices any longer. She was working, earning a good living, no issues with the benefit system, but she still couldn't handle the illness.

It's sad very sad, but to blame the benefit system is ridiculous. There are many things in life that are extremely stressful but avoiding stress only make things worse in the long term, teaching resiliency and how to cope with stressful events, even with mental health issues, is the best way to make sure sufferers don't end up taking drastic actions.

MissHoolie, that poor girl

It is government policies that left her isolated and even more vulnerable.

We have come to accept this.

Absolutely awful.

It's sad very sad, but to blame the benefit system is ridiculous.

So what you're saying is that your income has no bearing on the life you lead? ODFOD

teaching resiliency and how to cope with stressful events

Stiff upper lip while sitting in the dark freezing and starving to death, have my 2nd ODFOD and a

Two patients die from starvation or thirst each day in UK hospitals and care homes.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/two-patients-die-starvation-thirst-each-day-nhs-hospitals-uk-care-homes-statistics-office-national-a7517171.html

This is a perfect example of how statistics can be twisted to make people believe anything! These statistics are in no way a reflection of people starving due to not being able to afford food.

Most patients recorded as suffering from malnutrition are people who suffer from illnesses that mean they can't absorb nutrients properly. Same with dehydration. And yes, I know what I'm talking about as I work at a hospital dealing with such statistics.

I really hate how the media deform everything, but have to say that I also struggle with people who are so gullible to believe everything they read in the papers.

All over the world, throughout history
This thread is about this country.
Politicians and high profile campaigners of every stripe have always been a target
Where and when?

I really hate how the media deform everything, but have to say that I also struggle with people who are so gullible to believe everything they read in the papers.

Some of us have experience of the current benefits system and how they treat us as disabled people

Swingofthings You don't think the stress of having all your money cut off is not going to be the final straw for people who are already suffering? Teaching someone how to cope with stressful events is not going to put food in their belly or pay for heating in winter. The fact that people in other situations commit suicide does not change the fact that having your benefits cut off can be a huge contributing factor to people killing themselves.

swingofthings

If you work in a hospital, then I imagine you know all about the links between poverty and ill health?
And people who cannot work because of their illnesses? What of them?

And people who cannot work because of their illnesses? What of them?

Well after the introduction of the recommendations in the new green paper where theyre trying to get people from the support group with long term mental illness to engage with the work coaches to help them into work, im sure it wont be a big step for them to suggest that they can provide group living for these cohorts in a safe, supported group home, probably named a 'House for Work' probably needs to be more catchy though to sell it through the MSM (I know im being dramatic about the last part)

Swing I am pretty certain that the patient I spoke about would not have killed herself if she had been able to get a crisis loan and buy some food and top up her gas and electricity which she would have been able to do a few years ago. She had never spoken about suicide before.
Yes, some people who appear to have everything going for them take their lives but, IME, battling with the benefits system can be the straw that breaks the camel's back for some people with mental health problems. It's frustrating enough for people who don't have mental health problems.
IDS has fought tooth and nail to avoid releasing information under a FOI request about how many people have died due to this government's policies on benefits. Why would he do that if there was nothing to hide?

swing can you imagine how it feels to have literally no money?
You can't buy any food and if your electricity runs out, you have to sit in the dark. How would you feel? And it could be weeks or months before you get any money.

On this anecdotal (as FOI requests refused) suicide epidemic amongst the ill and poor, again it has Weimar parallels. Suspect there are also parallels on what current school and HE culture is doing to our children.

.www.academia.edu/2198515/Suicide_and_Crisis_in_Weimar_Berlin?auto=download

link:

www.academia.edu/2198515/Suicide_and_Crisis_in_Weimar_Berlin?auto=download

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/27/thousands-died-after-fit-for-work-assessment-dwp-figures

"It's sad very sad, but to blame the benefit system is ridiculous. There are many things in life that are extremely stressful but avoiding stress only make things worse in the long term, teaching resiliency and how to cope with stressful events, even with mental health issues, is the best way to make sure sufferers don't end up taking drastic actions."

This is a perfect example of one of the attitudes that I'm talking about - an attitude that is gathering popularity.

Yes, for example lets 'teach resilience' to people suffering from severe mental illness, who may be manic or paranoid or unable to get out of bed.

By 'teaching resilience' what you are really preaching is personal responsibility. Personal responsibility is genuinely important, of course - but there are huge swathes of people who cannot look after themselves without ongoing help.

There are people who cannot work, or who cannot safely work enough hours to meet their financial needs.

There are people who could work if their environment was adjusted, but employers won't do that or won't take the risk of hiring you.

I am saddened because I don't believe you know what you are truly saying by this. You truly believe it's as simple as being resilient, and if you are things will generally go ok in life, apart from a few ups and downs, along with the unavoidable experiences of being human such as some illness and bereavement, etc.

When you say that, you infer the inverse of that - that the people who can't cope, can't manage and end up dead, are somehow responsible by not being resilient enough to cope.

There are actual vulnerable people trapped in situations with no way out, and a government who strives to make it harder to access a basic standard of living with a safe place to live and food to eat.

MsHooliesCardigan, I am so very sorry to read of that young woman you were working with

"Well after the introduction of the recommendations in the new green paper where theyre trying to get people from the support group with long term mental illness to engage with the work coaches to help them into work, im sure it wont be a big step for them to suggest that they can provide group living for these cohorts in a safe, supported group home, probably named a 'House for Work' probably needs to be more catchy though to sell it through the MSM (I know im being dramatic about the last part)"

I wish with all my heart I thought this sounds far fetched, but it really doesn't.

When the levels of homelessness keep rising, and when more and more people are sanctioned, there will be demands for something to be done.

I think roundabout then would be a great time to slip in some idea about group homes that are supposed to be a kind of supported housing with opportunities to get back in to suitable employment.

In reality I think large scale hostels tied into something like the Workfare programme, perhaps where you are bussed to work in the partnership shops and factories everyday in exchange for your bed and meals.

Rolled out for disabled people with no partner or children at first, probably.

Who was that minister who argued disabled people were not worth the minimum wage?

That was Lord Freud as well I believe, he of Universal Credit fame and fevered blockchain fantasies.

Yes, here he is.

swing There is something called the stress vulnerability model which is used when working with people with psychosis.The theory is that we all have a tipping point of how much stress we can take before we become psychotic.
For people with a psychotic illness, their tipping point is much lower than it is for people who don't have a mental illness. There are well documented accounts of people who are taken hostage and held in solitary confinement beginning to hear voices having had no history of mental illness.
Something that may be 'character building' or promote resilience in some people could push someone with schizophrenia into a relapse and hospital admission or to taking their life.
Ten years ago,I spent 10 weeks in hospital with psychotic depression. I can honestly say that it took more effort when I was at my most ill to get out of bed, have a shower and get dressed than it did to run a marathon when I was well. If someone had come preaching to me about how to be more resilient when all I could think about was dying, I would have punched them.
You're basically telling mentally ill people to pull themselves together.

I have been doing a lot of reading about the rise of the right pre WWII and there are many frightening parallels with today.

The history of fascists in England and Mosley (and how the movement was turned against) is really interesting and not something I'd ever really known about.

I think when times get 'tough' people look to the right to try and find a scapegoat, blame and make themselves feel superior.

If you read accounts of how nazism took hold in Germany you can see it was a slow process (Hitler didn't walk into power and say "hey guys, we are going to kill all those Jews").

There is a really nasty movement of negative politics at the moment and I thinks it is a dangerous step.

Ah yes. People with poor mental health should be more resilient and poor people should just work harder to earn more money. Of course!