Asking DM & DDad to pay their way...

[Bringonthegin]

Apologies for the long post, have been dealing with this for years & wld appreciate some other views.
Will try to keep it as short as poss:
Backstory:
For the last 20 or so years, my parents have been hopeless with money. Simple fact of my life: plenty of it was made (Dad worked, Mum didn't) but then spent, with little thought about the future because the money could always be made. No pensions, savings. Recession hit, and everything changed. Money wasn't so easy to make, Dad was made bankrupt, their house ended up being re-mortgaged with a nightmare lender (story for another time) on horrendous interest rates. Dad didn't tell anyone how bad things really were. Fast forward to the month of my wedding (in 2010): I found myself in court, supporting my Dad & pleading for more time to pay mortgage arrears on their house bcs wld otherwise be evicted on my wedding day. I had found out about that 48 hours earlier as bailiffs had appeared & Mum called me, freaking out. My soon to be DH & I scraped together £20k to bail them out. None was ever paid back, only just recently finished paying that off ourselves . Fast forward to 2013: the lies had continued, bailiffs appeared at their house: no more chances. The house was repossessed, & they moved everything & themselves to my Grandmothers house. Not ideal. No money following sale of house after repossession, so suddenly they were basically homeless & penniless.
Fast forward some more: I set up a business in2014 to employ Dad, they moved in with us (GM by this time was v ill & in hospital: she died last year). They have lived with us ever since. They have use of my car (sold their own), we have not asked for a penny yet for groceries, bills etc, although they do sometimes pay towards food. Very stressful situation to date: I closed the business this year as had a breakdown in January (immense strain on my marriage being a factor). Dad now employed elsewhere, working all hours but earning good money. Mum working part time, but doing well.
Now they're earning, we want them to have enough to be able to rent somewhere of their own etc, but my question is this: in my position, would you now ask for some financial assistance towards bills & groceries? We will help them sort out somewhere to live (their credit history is a nightmare etc): it'll be local as they're brilliant with our child & we have family not too far away & their jobs are obvs important!
But we (DH &I) feel as though it wouldn't be unreasonable: do you agree?
There is much more to this as well, but wld appreciate your thoughts. Pls be gentle: this has been the most appallingly stressful nightmare. TIA.

What the hell have they been doing with all the money they've earned while staying at yours and not paying for anything?

I agree with Jay, they can pay for six months upfront and avoid the need for a guarantor. Tell them to start saving now! As previous poster asked, what are they spending all their money on up til now? There should be no reason why they constantly get into debt, unless one has a serious gambling habit or something?

Bless you OP - what a wonderful daughter you have been. Unfortunately it has been at the expense of yourself and your relationships.

Now read up on enabling people! Try this as a start:
www.sethchernoff.com/spirituality/codependency-enabling-behavior-tough-love/
I agree with the majority of others - the time for this level of help (if ever there is a time) is when your parents are very elderly and infirm - and then if you do this, it is a 'chore' or 'duty' born out of love and a recognition of what your parents have done for you.
Sadly your parents have shown you that they are completely self obsessed and have failed to show you the care and thought that they should.
I understand why you want to act as a guarantor but am joining the chorus of those saying NO! Your parents have shown no evidence that they will respect you and not leave you with their debts - they have repeatedly let you carry their financial responsibilities and debts. They will NOT change. All that can change is you.
You and your husband need to sit down and write out (script) this very difficult conversation. Rehearse what you need to say. Don't apologise. Just be clear. "This arrangement is not working for us. You need to make arrangements to move out by..... You will need to save for your deposit and find a guarantor as we are unable to take that responsibility.
We will always love you but we need time to build our own relationship and family time. "
And then decide whether you want to ask for a fixed contribution to the household budget or whether you are prepared to abandon that and state that you won't be doing that to ensure that they are saving for their deposit.

You both sound to be amazing people who have been financially (and emotionally) abused for too long.

Where do you think all their money is going at the moment? Surely if they are not paying for rent, food or bills they must have a fair amount of disposable cash? The old rule of thumb used to be 1/3 of your income on rent mortgage was affordable but lots seem to spend more than that these days.

Do they still have debts? If not, and they are not obviously spending a lot on 'stuff', then I'd be wondering if one of them has a gambling habit or something.

You really have been very good to them. Time to put your DH and your kids first. And yourself.

Yes, you absolutely should ask for a contribution. Every single adult who is physically and mentally able should be expected to pay their way in life.
The thing that does surprise me about this thread is the fact that on MN people are usually happy about fellow mumsnetters taking from their parents. I don't agree with this either - all adults should be aiming for self-sufficiency, and adult children who are working should be charged board too.

So where is the money they both earn? Have they not paid for anything in the past four years?! Bonkers! They've lived off you for years, it's unbelievable. Why wait til Christmas? What's stoping them moving right now?

Omg I didn't spot the word guarantor. Under no circumstances ever ever agree to being their guarantor. Being a guarantor means you agree to paying their rent for the full term of the contract, it would ruin you. Only ever be a guarantor if the monthly rent x length of contract is an amount you would be willing to freely give away. No parent should ever ask this of their child unless the child is a lottery winner.

Absolutely you should. You've been a saint up to now.

This should be a lead up to them moving out into their own place. Give them an absolute deadline for doing this., or it won't happen. And, as someone else has said, do not be a guarantor for them. Ever.

Have they ever learnt how to budget? Can you set up a spreadsheet with them to work out what they can spend? Then look at them having a bills account and a spending account so they know bills are always paid. Include in this the 20k they owe you for sure.

Can you get them to get their credit reports (free with noddle) and then work out what is public info as that's all a renting credit check will show and then you can work out if they even need a guarantor.

OP you sound like such a conscientious person, but you are just doing so much. But I understand the predicament you are in.

In your research regarding being a guarantor etc, you need to look at the full legal implications of being a guarantor, and especially if you are asked to sign a Deed of Guarantee as this is a serious legal undertaking and you could be on the hook for thousands more, especially if a 12 month tenancy.

Don't ask a letting agent about this as I don't think you will get accurate or impartial advice. You need to speak to a solicitor to get the full facts.

I think we all really worry that your parents will just continue to take advantage of you.

Please put yourself first from now on. If your parents cannot do the right thing by now, there is not much hope that this is suddenly going to change :(

Bloody hell, put your own family first - you, DH and your DC - and your health - seriously I'm gobsmacked at the way you're being treated. You've done enough for your parents now and need to focus on your own future and your family.
Good luck

You need to sit down and TELL them what will happen - don't ask, don't give them any choice.

Tell them the date you want them to leave - not Xmas, as you'll never put them out at Xmas.
1st October would be a good date, as already suggested.

If they don't find anywhere by then, put them out!
They can report to the council as homeless.

These disgustingly selfish people need to face their own responsibilities and you need to make them do it.

(I am guarantor for a family member, who is doing their best financially. I would NEVER, NEVER consider being guarantor for someone like your parents.)

Have they no pride? I'd be appalled if your adult children were taking advantage like this, but your parents?!
It's time to let them stand on their own two feet.
Ask them when they will start making repayments on the money they owe you.
When you do a shop, ask for their share towards it. Same for utilities and petrol.
I'm sorry to sound harsh but you have gone above and way beyond.
It's thanks to you and your DP that they have had a chance to start again. If they haven't learned hard lessons from everything (mainly the pain they have caused you, their child over the financial mess) then they never will. I'd recommend some kind of counselling and professional advice.
Do not extend any more help their way or you will be enabling their recklessness.

Op I also wonder for you if you have issues with enmeshment. Consider trading up on this or seeking counseling