Asking DM & DDad to pay their way...

[Bringonthegin]

Apologies for the long post, have been dealing with this for years & wld appreciate some other views.
Will try to keep it as short as poss:
Backstory:
For the last 20 or so years, my parents have been hopeless with money. Simple fact of my life: plenty of it was made (Dad worked, Mum didn't) but then spent, with little thought about the future because the money could always be made. No pensions, savings. Recession hit, and everything changed. Money wasn't so easy to make, Dad was made bankrupt, their house ended up being re-mortgaged with a nightmare lender (story for another time) on horrendous interest rates. Dad didn't tell anyone how bad things really were. Fast forward to the month of my wedding (in 2010): I found myself in court, supporting my Dad & pleading for more time to pay mortgage arrears on their house bcs wld otherwise be evicted on my wedding day. I had found out about that 48 hours earlier as bailiffs had appeared & Mum called me, freaking out. My soon to be DH & I scraped together £20k to bail them out. None was ever paid back, only just recently finished paying that off ourselves . Fast forward to 2013: the lies had continued, bailiffs appeared at their house: no more chances. The house was repossessed, & they moved everything & themselves to my Grandmothers house. Not ideal. No money following sale of house after repossession, so suddenly they were basically homeless & penniless.
Fast forward some more: I set up a business in2014 to employ Dad, they moved in with us (GM by this time was v ill & in hospital: she died last year). They have lived with us ever since. They have use of my car (sold their own), we have not asked for a penny yet for groceries, bills etc, although they do sometimes pay towards food. Very stressful situation to date: I closed the business this year as had a breakdown in January (immense strain on my marriage being a factor). Dad now employed elsewhere, working all hours but earning good money. Mum working part time, but doing well.
Now they're earning, we want them to have enough to be able to rent somewhere of their own etc, but my question is this: in my position, would you now ask for some financial assistance towards bills & groceries? We will help them sort out somewhere to live (their credit history is a nightmare etc): it'll be local as they're brilliant with our child & we have family not too far away & their jobs are obvs important!
But we (DH &I) feel as though it wouldn't be unreasonable: do you agree?
There is much more to this as well, but wld appreciate your thoughts. Pls be gentle: this has been the most appallingly stressful nightmare. TIA.

You and your DH are amazing OP. I'm not surprised you had a breakdown with all this stress. Get them to contribute and go from there. It's about taking responsibility and so far, you've been shouldering ALL the responsibility. 💐

YOU MUST NOT BE THEIR GUARANTOR!!!!

do not do this. don't be guilt tripped or bullied. they got themselves into this dreadful hole and they will drag you in too - they already have to the tune of at least 40K that you've told us about! (the 20K to save the house and 20K you've spent on their food). this is outrageous.

fuck their bank statements. i'd ask them to pay for their share of food and utilities, plus a premium to start paying back what they owe you AND you want them out by christmas. that's a reasonable compromise.

or

they pay all their food, utilities, market rent and a loan repayment for the 40K AND they move out in 2 months.

what fucking users. you're both saints, but they've used and abused you far far far too much. absolutely shameful.

You've become the parent which is an awful situation to be in and bailing them out for 20k! They are clearly happy to take, take, take. Personally I would be asking them to move out as you've done enough.

You need to sit down and TELL them what will happen - don't ask, don't give them any choice.

Under no circumstances should you be their guarantor. NONE, NADA, NIL. These are adults who need to learn to stand on their own two feet - they have had an incredible amount of support and backing from you and your DH, but that stops now.

There will be no further financial support from you. You will not be lending, paying or negotiating on their behalf any more.

I know it sounds cruel and you clearly love your family and don't want to see them suffer - but FFS your Dad is now earning good money and hasn't put his hand in his pocket since 2014!! If they love you then surely they can see the stress and strain this puts you under? They sound monstrously selfish to me - I can't imaging standing by and watching a family member buckle with the stress of supporting me whilst I sit on my arse.

You said they are brilliant with your child so hopefully if you do end up writing off money they will be helping you with childcare which will be a way of saving money, and that relationship is worth something too. I am shocked by your parents though. I think you need to explain that you found it difficult financially over the last years (you have only just finished paying the £20k) and see what they suggest, ask them what their plans are to get things moving but so they are taking control. If things don't move forward then start setting dates etc.

Sorry - meant to add:

The reason why you MUST take a (humungous) step back and let them sink or swim on their own, is because they will never learn otherwise. By continually being their safety net and bailing them out you are shielding them from ever having to manage on their own. If they don't learn then this will NEVER change - do you want years and years of this stress and financial upset stretching on for decades to come?

They need to see a money advice service (I'm not religious but funnily enough Christian Against Poverty do a very good service which is free). It will help them learn about debt, how to manage money, how to set a budget etc.

They should be offering a contribution - both are working - have use of your car etc...

I would NOT be their guarantor - you'd end up paying their rent!

Where is all their money going? Is one or both gambling for example?

Sit them both down - give them a date to leave - sooner rather than later if you want them out before Christmas.

Wow, you're an absolute saint. I can't believe anyone would have the giant brass balls to take £20k without ever offering to pay at least some back, let alone happily live rent-free and bill-free whilst earning. They obviously feel you owe them this because they took care of you in childhood, but you're not their parents.

OP you have been a saint, but who is the parent here? Hint.... it's not you. You have done enough, in fact, more than enough.

P.S If they contact a debt charity (NOT a debt management company, totally different) and are totally honest they should be able to help them budget and sort out any debts they may still have. Don't be a guarantor, it would be economic suicide and would also destroy your relationship with them when it goes tits up

Ask them to move out, and set up a plan for them to repay you that 20k. Tgey have to be made to take responsibility for themselves, instead of expecting to be bailed out all them time.

Never be their garantour, you will be responsible if they don't pay their rent, considering their mismanagement with money, very likely!

They've really taken advantage if you and your DH. I can't imagine ever using my children like that .

As everyone else has said...

Do Not ask to see the statements, that is their business.
Do Not offer to be their guarantor.

You need to step back and learn to let them get on with things themselves. Tell them they need to be out by Xmas, they should have time to save a deposit. Also tell them that you won't beable to help them out anymore as you now have other financial priorities.

So it sounds as though you lived with them right up until you got married? Did you contribute to household running costs? Did they contribute to your wedding? Your poor dad tried his best to shield you from all his problems UB the run up to your wedding

Are you a Saint?

If you can afford not to ask for the money, I would set a moving out date and stick to it.

And please don't be a guarantor.

Echoing the others to beg you not to be a guarantor, and to insist they sit down with someone else (not you or DH!) to budget. Renting is expensive, and requires budgetary discipline. I'd like to know WTF they're doing with the money they earn now.

Am quite staggered how cosy they have made themselves as you are put through the wringer. I know it's normally a good thing to give a helping hand, support family members but you and DH have gone above and beyond. Your health has suffered and now your marriage. Of the whole account the lies had continued that phrase really jumped out at me. That was a few years' ago but I would take anything they say with a big fat pinch of salt.
/

This.

@Kittymum03 you've nailed it: I want to check they've got the money for a deposit, rent etc before even looking for somewhere to live. They don't splash out on stuff, but equally, I have absolutely no trust in them on this. Which is heartbreaking to write about my own parents.

If we do decide to become their guarantor (& I fully appreciate why most of you have said DON'T DO IT): I want them to hand over to us the amount we would have to pay in the event of them messing up their rent.

Trouble is, without a guarantor, they won't get anywhere :-( it's a difficult one to balance, as I'm aware of potential damage to credit ratings etc. I think we'd need to have some sort of immediate warning agreement in place with any letting company/landlord (I have to find out about all of this, I last rented many years ago).

@Kailoer I will update, it's incredibly helpful just writing this all out!

@OliviaBenson I think we might get some counselling, this has all been/is so incredibly damaging :-(

Stop enabling their behaviour. Echoing all the advice above. Give them written notice to leave with a firm end date, two months notice would be more than reasonable so a date in October. They can speak to the local housing officer, if they are 50+ they may qualify for a retirement property. Draw up an agreement to repay the £20k and get them to sign it. I'd also tell them they need to pay £X towards housekeeping , I would also tell them they can no longer use the car after (give them a date in a couple of weeks) and take them off the insurance. Your doing no one any favours allowing this situation to carry on.

Yes to the poster who mentioned CAP & if I were you I'd book them an apt at CAB and frog march them there myself. Otherwise, you'll get excuses why they can't go etc. Step back from their financial issues but sign post them to agencies who can help them become financially independent.

capuk.org

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/getting-financial-advice/

Hi OP

You and your DH have been too generous for too long. For the best of motives. It's always hard with family.

Another vote for

1. Don't ask for contributions, it is likely to make them feel entitled to stay or delude themselves that you are benefiting from this arrangement too

1. Don't ask to see their bank statements. Their financial situation is their outlook. They are independent of you or should be.

1. Do not be their guarantor. You have done enough.

1. If you can afford to write off all the money you have given them in the past, this might be best. If they have managed to save anything up they are going to need it when they move.

Good luck and give yourself a break you have done your best throughout.

With them both working and having been in work for a length of time they might not need a guarantor. Especially if they rent direct with a landlord.
Are they likely to fail a credit check due to ccjs? Is that why you think they'll need one?

Paying 6months rent upfront would be a way round it, not saying you should do it for them, you've spent enough.

Oh OP! I agree with everyone else - you and your dh have been utter saints. I cannot get my head around the fact that your parents watched you go through a breakdown and can surely see the damage they are doing to your marriage and yet are making no moves to help in any way.

What are their spending habits like now, do you know? With no overheads whatsoever, unless they are madly buying stuff or going off on holidays and things, surely they are able to save a bit?