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AIBU?

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Original poster

Gobsmacked at the jogger on the news..

981 replies

KurriKurri · 08/08/2017 15:16

Who pushed that woman over into the path of a bus.

What a complete and utter wanker - who the hell does that?

Thank goodness she was OK (physically at least- she'll probably be rather nervous about walking along the pavement now Sad

OP posts:
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8
Rumplestaleskin · 09/08/2017 23:11

Sadly, I was also pushed onto the road, when I was pregnant, with force. Wow, this actually is more common than I'd thought possible.

bettyblueeyes83 · 09/08/2017 23:11

Quite, Minesa. It's so frustrating when women articulate their experiences and the particular vulnerability of being smaller/younger/pregnant and then men saying, well my experience as a man suggests this has nothing to do with gender. Women are saying it does. I'm flabbergasted that there's something this blatant, where he avoids the man, pushes the woman so viciously, and it's just some mysterious entitlement that has nothing to do with gender - or it's even her fault. Were these people persecuting you all women, Alec, or would they be mostly men who just happen to be arrogant and violent in a totally non-gendered way?

MeanAger · 09/08/2017 23:14

though I'm not convinced he acted that way because his victim was a woman.

Supported by the fact he pushed the man that he came across first as well.....oh wait. Perhaps his type of entitled arrogant arsehole only manifests itself when faced with women, I wonder if there is a named for that?

AlecTrevelyan006 · 09/08/2017 23:17

During the course of his run, the guy in the video would have passed lots of other men and women, but he didn't push them either - just this one person. It is possible that it just a coincidence that the victim in this case was a woman.

MeanAger · 09/08/2017 23:26

I would bet you all the bacon in my freezer (there is a lot, and I'm very attached to it) that it was 100% deliberate that the victim of his entitled arrogant arseholery was a woman.

RidingWindhorses · 09/08/2017 23:34

Bottom line is if you push over a random man like that, there's evey chance he'll get up punch you in the face.

That's why men like him pick on women.

annandale · 09/08/2017 23:34

Alex that's a little strange. You've described all the things that happened to you when you were jogging. Nobody did anything to this jogger as far as we are aware. You've described many types of abuse, but at no point were you shoved so hard that you fell over into the road (obviously I'm glad about that). How does street abuse of joggers relate to this, violence by a jogger?

I am with Mean ager, given past experience I am absolutely certain that these two were strangers to each other and that the salient feature of this person for the jogger was that she had a cunt.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 09/08/2017 23:49

Perhaps I could hav explained better - I mean that as a man, while out and about (jogging) I have been sworn at, spat at, chased, had things thrown at me, had people quite deliberately stand in my way, or drive aggressively close to me etc. All of these things were done by men and obviously they weren't done to me because I'm a woman, because I'm not, I'm a man.

I have experienced a few isolated incidents by women, but I think probably 95% of them were carried out by men.

bettyblueeyes83 · 10/08/2017 00:02

No one's doubting your account, Alec; we're questioning its relevance in demonstrating that the selection of a woman as a victim was random. Just because you experienced this abusive behaviour as a man (and I'm sorry to hear that) doesn't mean that there isn't a greater predominance of male violence against women, nor diminish the likelihood of a misogynist motive for this attack. Unfortunately, men are socialised to question the 'evidence' (women's statements of their female experience) for things that are outside of their immediate experience (such as being harassed because of your gender). And your statement that you've never pushed anyone while jogging (well done!) rather has the flavour of the defensive 'not all men' approach that undermines discussion of women's experience: http://www.slate.com/blogs/badastronomy/2014/05/27/nottallmennhowdiscussinggwomenssissuesgetss_derailed.html

HelenaDove · 10/08/2017 00:04

Alec perhaps in your case other blokes see you as competition because you are bothering to keep fit.

RidingWindhorses · 10/08/2017 00:09

I think they're probably just arseholes.

nocoolnamesleft · 10/08/2017 03:20

No need for feminism any more anyone. The battles are all won.

Like fuck.

Crumbelina · 10/08/2017 07:59

When videos like this go viral the perpetrators sometimes hand themselves in. Really hope that has happened or happens soon.

Elendon · 10/08/2017 08:13

It's incredibly infuriating that even with video evidence people still dismiss violence against women. It's people who say I've never seen or experienced sexism despite the testimonials on the Everyday Sexism Project.

I hope this man is found and brought to trial though he would have a nerve to cry 'not guilty' - let's hope the charge is attempted manslaughter.

I also hope that Taylor Swift wins her case. She was quite obviously groped by the DJ (there is pictorial evidence). But poor guy cries because his life has been destroyed by Swift having the audacity to say his behaviour was out of order. No mate it was you who destroyed your career.

Actions do have consequences.

sashh · 10/08/2017 08:13

Sorry Alec but

Middle aged female here - in 50 years of living I have never shoved anyone.

I have, however, been heckled on many occasions - usually, but not exclusively, teen/early adul males.

I've had a bottle thrown at me from a van, been spat at, chased by yobs on foot and on cycle, and had several cars quite obviously and deliberately swerve into puddles in order to splash me.

I've also been sworn at for not providing directions to people who stopped me or me flagged me down I was trying to get the bus.

I've been deliberately tripped up, or attempted to be tripped up several times.

I've even been wolf-whistled at a few times.

And lots of other stuff.

Grabbing boobs / bum, called names, shoved out of the way, ignored, I'm small you would be surprised how often I've been at a bar and someone has ordered a drink over my head.

Alec most of these things happened the first time in my teens, the first time my boob was grabbed in public I was 11.

This happens to women and girls all the time, in school, in work, on a night out, walking to public transport, on public transport.

As a male jogger you have felt about 1% of what it is like to be female. And I bet this has only happened when you are jogging. I'd also bet that you have never blamed yourself.

MineKraftCheese · 10/08/2017 08:48

@AlecTrevelyan006 I'm interested in what wider point you are trying to make.

Because it sounds like you're saying "yeah women get abused and attacked sometimes but so do the menz so it can't be a sexist issue"

Do you see how all the things that happened to you while jogging would have been infinitely scarier for you if you were a woman? Do you understand how vulnerable women feel?

Elendon · 10/08/2017 08:53

and had several cars quite obviously and deliberately swerve into puddles in order to splash me.

This happened to me last week. It was deliberate and that car almost mowed me down in doing it. Thankfully I'm nimble of foot. I know it was deliberate because there were people waiting at a bus stop and they asked if I was ok.

treaclesoda · 10/08/2017 08:57

I was reading this thread on the bus this morning, next to my husband. He was in the aisle seat, I was at the window. When we got to the station where we get off (end of the journey, everyone is getting off) we stood to get off and people started moving into the aisle. The (very young) man who has been behind us stood back to let my husband out then tried to barge past me and make me wait (although I didn't let him). This happens to me at least once a week. DH never noticed until I pointed it out and now that I've pointed it out he has been quite shocked by how differently I am treated.

NoLoveofMine · 10/08/2017 09:13

There was also this teenage girl who had to go to hospital earlier this year after a man threw a can at her from a car as she walked: www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/headlines/15267306.Girl_taken_to_hospital_after_can_thrown_from_car_at_her/?commentSort=score

Fekko · 10/08/2017 09:21

I had a car deliberately speed up and swerve at me when I was crossing the road 8 months pregnant. Absolute bastards.

NationalExpress · 10/08/2017 09:44

The footage is awful, the woman is very lucky not to be dead!

Something that really bothers me, almost on a par with male violence, is the excuses that are made, the lack of solidarity from other women, the way women and girls are conditioned to blame themselves for some men and boys' poor behaviour. Why is this?
My daughter doesn't put up with this kind of stuff in school, but has lost friends over it who chose to defend a drunk, groping boy what also snuggled up to the friends and said he wanted to rape them, but no, he was drunk, anyone criticising him was just being attention seeking and dramatic!
Why is there such denial over male violence?

Jux · 10/08/2017 10:31

When dd was at school (Y8/9) a boy in sixth form started sending penis pics to girls in her year and asking for naked pics back; the girls were young, in awe of him, he would crowd them in school corridors, intimidate them. They believed he loved them, and sent pics back, not knowing they were only one of many. He picked on vulnerable girls - easy to know who they were, as the school counsellor would march into lessons and announce the name of the girl she wanted to see for all to hear.

Eventually, after many many complaints by pupils, targetted and not targetted by this boy, the school investigated, police were involved, the boy was told off.

The next year he was made head boy. Apparently he'd learnt his lesson, and didn't do it any more. Except, of course, he did.

I was so happy when dd decided she was so disgusted she wanted to go elsewhere. I have never been so glad to shake the dust of a place off my feet.

TreasureInMyTummy · 10/08/2017 10:46

Really hope they catch the guy. When I first moved to London I was coming out of Liverpool Street station and a very busy important man shoved past me and knocked me into a gutter/ dip in the pavement and I twisted my ankle and fell. He didn't turn around to help and neither did any of the other busy men zooming past. A woman with a pram helped me up. I tried to just walk on and five minutes later fainted with the pain.

There are some really helpful men out there but then there are these guys....

St01c · 10/08/2017 11:03

Jux, it beggars belief doesn't it. Society seems so invested in to thinking the worst of women and the best of men. Forgiving men everything. Finding some convoluted way to prove a woman, or girl ! brought the rape/harassment/abuse/murder/humiliation on herself.

PelorusJack · 10/08/2017 12:18

I'm finding the hyperbole and vitriol aimed towards people who questioned whether the man deliberately pushed the woman or not really unpleasant.

I was the poster that posted the Sargents comments from Tuesday where he confirms that he believes that it was a deliberate and malicious act so I'm 100% on board with what happened. It was a random and dangerous act of violence against a woman by a man.

However before he made that statement when I studied the video - something I did really carefully and slowly I didn't think it looked like the guy shoved the woman. I genuinely thought it looked like it might be more of an accidental bump followed by flailing arms. I CLEARLY said I understood that the police would have a better idea of what happened as they would have spoken to the woman and were in a better position to examine the video.

The accusations on this thread that anyone who read the video in the same way that I had originally done must be a woman hating - violent man apologist etc etc are ridiculous and offensive. I posted what I thought I could see in the video it wasn't based on ANYTHING else. It's patronising and incorrect to think I was influenced to see what I thought I saw because I mentally wasn't able to believe that a man could be violent towards a woman. That would be beyond stupid.

I'm sure there will be some people who are saying that the man was innocent because they are 'male violence' apologists or because they can't believe someone would do something so mindlessly violent but to group everyone who initially interpreted the video as I did in this group is ignorant and wrong.

I can never fully understand why some posters are so belligerent online. I wonder if they are like that in real life. I knew I wasn't able to 100% tell what happened in that video and hence my posts were reasoned and cautiously worded. It's a contrast to all these posters who seem to think they know everything even what other people are thinking Confused