To be sick of victim blaming on MN?

[CherryChasingDotMuncher]

I'm sick to the back teeth of reading victim blaming comments on here. Am I the only one who's noticed the tides turning on MN recently?

Heaven forbid women who've been through a trauma wear clothes from their actual wardrobe and don't buy a "victim outfit" to wear in public. It appears they're not a real victim unless they adhere to a certain set of behaviours.

That's just one thread today. I've seen comments recently about what sexual assault victims wear, how drunk they are. Yesterday people were equating raping a woman with a woman lying about taking a contraceptive pill (someone even said this was the same as rape) and not too long ago someone commented that it was Amber Heard's own fault that she got hit by the phone Jonny Depp threw at her because she didn't duck.

If you challenge these comments then you're often called a feminazi, an idiot or a man-hater.

I know this is kind of a TAAT (or several threads) but I'm beyond disappointed that a website predominantly for women would have so many people letting the side down and believing that other women are either lying until they can prove otherwise or that they deserve the abuse they get from men. And if that woman has ever displayed any sexual behaviour ever, then it's even worse.

The threads that get very muddled about victim blaming are those concerning rape where people say, despite it making no statistical difference, I would warn my daughter not to do such and such.

And because we all probably would do that, and because we probably know it makes no difference, there is an element of cognitive dissonance.

Which is why the two concepts need to be kept separate.

Telling your daughter to do something will not affect male violence. It might affect her chances of encountering it. (Although, only minimally, given you are more likely to be raped by someone you know).

So the first concept is personal relationships with children and how to help them navigate life in general, which may or may not include warnings on the concept of how to stay safe.

The second concept is male violence. The first concept has absolutely no place in the issue of addressing male violence, nor the actions that need to be taken to diminish it.

Which is why it shouldn't even be brought up in that context.

Addressing the ongoing issue of male violence need not mention the victims at all, in the context of how to stop it.

"More women, mothers especially need to be aware this shit happens to men"

Why mothers, especially?

Datun We are on Mumsnet. The clue is in the name. The majority of posters here are female

gotspoiler

Okay. So it's not directed at women in general, just women on here. And that the issue of abuse of children is the responsibility equally of mothers and fathers.

For both parents equally sure. Getting the message on MN is mainly going to be seen by mothers

So can you sum your message up?

Read my post on the last page Bertrand

Yeah I get that you think you are addressing mostly women, which you probably are, although there are many men on mumsnet too. I just wanted to make sure you said 'especially mothers' because of the context of who you are addressing, not in the context of who should be responsible.

YADNBU it is depressing that there are so many women out there who try to deny the way things are perhaps as a protective mechanism

Many MNers with sons love them, at least I hope they do. So if any sons of these MNers tell their mother they were abused, assaulted, raped etc by a woman what are they going to do? In threads like these it seems the mother would say 'nah ah ahhhhhhh. more women get assaulted by men, check your privilege because we live in a patriarchy.

You're now being goady or obtuse. Or both. Or you've trained in the same School of Making Things Up as mum

I have a son. I wouldn't say this to him. No good mother would

It doesn't change the fact that more perpetrators are men. It's not anti-men to point out facts about how most sexual offenders are male.

If you want to raise awareness that men go through this too then fine - but why are you coming on a thread thats mainly about crimes against women and trying to change facts to make women look worse than they are?

Contrary to popular belief feminists don't have to centre men in anything. The same way you wouldn't expect a Black Lives Matter campaigner to think about the white people.

So, your message is "bad things happen to men too"

I don't think anyone would disagree with you.

Why do you think you need to minimize women's experience to get that message across?

Frankly it's disgusting. More women, mothers especially need to be aware this shit happens to men. Their brothers, sons, nephews etc

But I take it you don't think men should be aware of what happens to women?

I don't know why it's always a woman's job to educate and look after men

The function of all this is not to advocate for men, it's to stop women from organising and it's very effective.

Not walking home at 3am, not getting hysterically drunk, not accepting drinks from strangers, and all the usual how to not get raped advice is generally good advice. it's good advice for women and men. And it's good advice for a number of reasons not related to sexual assaults. Because it's allways aimed towards women and allways with implication this is how to avoid being raped is what makes it victim blaming.

Men are responsible for male violence. Men are responsible for rape culture and for rape.

I have been the victim of rape and of sexual abuse by a woman. They are equally horrific. But only one got me pregnant (which in itself is life threatening) and could have given me a life threatening STD/I (as std/i's pass from a penis into the recipient around 10 times more than they do from a vagina, which is somewhat obvious if you think about it) so it's right that rape carries a different definition.

IME, it's usually men who minimise female to male sexual assault, not women. As an example , I was on a discussion about an adult woman(teacher? ) who was convicted of having unlawful sex with underage boys. I was told by several male posters that this this was something every teenage boy fantasised about and it was a joke to call it sexual assault or the underage boys victims.
I disagree as a mother of course. I would take it just as seriously as I would if if the genders were reversed, or if the adult was the same sex.

I'm sure most school boys emphatically do not fantasise about sex with their female teachers.

Child abuse is child abuse, gender is immaterial, unless a pregnancy is the result. Other boys and men thinking it's all just the last word in a sexual fantasy is a further product of toxic masculinity.

I can't imagine many mothers being happy that their sons have been groomed by a female teacher!

To be honest, I'm having difficulty imagining a parent of either sex being happy about it.

I agree Datun but that is what I was told by several male posters.
I was just using that case as an example of a female sexual predator being tried and sentenced appropiately. I think women already do take it more seriously.

I do occasionally see things along the same lines. Comments that are hugely fuelled by the idea that sex with a woman, under any circumstances whatsoever, must be a good thing, even in the case of a minor.

It's unsurprising that women generally don't hold the same view.

I'm fascinated by cultural (and gendered) ideas about victimhood. They're really weird and I find them rather baffling

@Bert

Seen as you haven't bothered (or maybe are unable to ) answer the question of why you post on threads like this, I'll indulge you as to why I do

There is a certain section of feminists who completely lack critical thinking skills; unfortunately they seem to be the loudest. They don't represent me or most (perhaps all of the women I know). They persistently present incorrect facts and when shown evidence otherwise they make some stupid retort like "you must be a mra".

They use the "patriarchy" and women being "unthinking" for why women, think both people should consent to sex, wear make up, shave their legs, change their names after marriage or don't work in STEM. It couldn't be because some women actually want to do these things.

I work in a managerial role in STEM, don't wear make up or shave my legs and haven't changed my name. I think if one person changes the terms of consent it is despicable, be in the man or the woman, both scenarios are as bad as each other. . But I am "bad feminist", not like the good feminists who would be "too scared because patriarchy" not to shave their legs etc.

This millitant feminists who lack critical thinking skills and continually spout shit are an embarassment to the rest of us and are doing more damage to the cause because most sane people can see they are nuts. I don't think women are simple creatures who can't think for themselves. I don't think talkimy about fgm is "racist". I have respect for all humans.

(oh and I'm still waiting for the patriarchy to knock on my door to tell me to do any of the above things)

There was a thread the other day that OP asked too be taken down because of the victim blaming on it.
Her DH had been raped by 2 men and caught herpes. She was struggling with his mood swings and him not being able to cope. A few gave helpful comments, others accused him of lying too cover up an affair, because the OP had previously referenced her husband using cocaine - one poster commented maybe if he laid of the coke it wouldn't have happened. Another claimed because it was a stag do he obviously had a gay dalliance and rather than admit it he claimed rape. Another claimed the OP should be dubious because very rarely men get raped, a woman is more likely to be raped than a man.

It was truly awful watching it all unfold.

When have incorrect facts been presented on this thread?

Ffs panda that's appalling

I didn't see that one KungFu and I'm glad I didn't. FFS some people!