... to think it slightly odd that so many of my school mum friends are hung up about secondary schools already, when their kids are only 5!

[sandyballs]

It seems to be the sole topic of conversation lately - how good/bad the local comp is, how extra tuition will be needed for the local grammar etc etc.

The kids are 5/6 years old! Let them be kids!

I'm sure our parents never had all this school angst!

I'm not talking about being clever enough to get into the school, I am talking about being clever enough to succeed in this world you talk of.
What if she fails every exam she ever takes??

Her current school?
She is at school already and was interviewed for it?
Jeez when does childhood happen in your world?
My son is the same age as your daughter and loves nothing more than running about naked with a toilet roll insert for entertainment, I could not imagine having him at school already.

Lorayn - pre-school (not obligatory but attended by 99% of the population) starts in the September of the calendar year of a child's third birthday here.

My daughter was interviewed by the headmistress of the whole pre-school/primary school (600 or so pupils) when she was 2.6 - she had to do little drawings, puzzles, play with little people, answer a few questions about colours etc.

Don't get at me just for playing by the rules

You're still avoiding the issue that your child may turn out not to be intelligent.
So, she is at school, and probably going to get in to the school you want her to go to.
But what if she fails all her education??

No, I'm not avoiding it. If that happens, then she can change school and go to one that is less academic - I would have thought that was pretty obvious.

However, the opposite course - start her off on a less academic path and move her to a much more academic school later - is practically impossible to achieve. I know, I have two stepsons who are both at the top of their class and bored but it's too late to move them to a much better school

shuddering at the thought that a young child get's "interviewed" to get into school....

Anna....but Habbi was talking about York being superior in teaching in a certain subject, but that a very talented possible student was adviced to go to an inferior University, to take the subject, not because the teaching would be better but it would be the right address for better advancement...
which is why I assumed that you followed Xenias thinking in "address " is everything, when you said what you said....
I think the whole bilingual issue is a whole different story, as not many schools really give that opportunity.

Still don't get the morality stance on it though...I must be incredible thick, which isn't news to me, of course
So, am with Blueshoes here...I don't get it!

Lorayn - Interestingly enough, over lunch I have just read Chris Woodhead's column in the Sunday Times (Review section 23/09) and he says that Oxbridge will only look at the applicant's top 7 or 8 GCSE subjects. A reader writes in with a very similar query you should point your friend to it.

How is it pretty obvious that she would go to a less academic school if she wasn't intelligent? Are you sure you wouldnt just bombard her with tutors and blame the school?
And what about the rest of her life??
Where would she fit in in your wonderfully intelligent academically superior family???

OK - the issue is - if a whole bunch of very clever people go to a very good school/university together, they not only get a great education but, crucially, they know each other as friends ie they are in a network.

Fast forward now to the day when all those people are 40 and running big companies, being hot shot lawyers, top civil servants, running huge research departments in universities etc. One of them needs something doing to get the business he/she is in moving ahead, in another domain - and can pick up the phone, call a friend, and sort it over lunch.

Then take the very clever person who went to an obscure university where he/she was taught by some very clever academics but didn't meet the future movers and shakers of the world. Don't you think that person might have a harder time making his/her future business work? Their brain power might be massive, but their political/social power negligible.

That's why a critical mass of clever people and future movers and shakers (the social aspect) is so critical to moving society forward.

I don't know the ins and outs of it tbh caroline, I think she was told if she was at a better school it may not have been too bad and that she wouldn't be able to do the subject she wanted.
But thankyou, I'll tell her to read it.

You mean to getting their back scratched anna??
Surely if something needs doing in business it will get done and if it is beneficial to both sides then it won't be a problem that they don't know each other.

Lorayn - calm down.

The school I would like my daughter chucks out the pupils who don't make the grade. That's how it works.

hmmm...but isn't that kinda implying that movers and shakers all go to say, Oxbridge....to the right address....I mean, surely all students will build a network with their peers, and just as at those "right adressees" not all will end up in the same line of work...

I think education is very much of benefit to society. Most problems in the developing world would be sorted out by better education. However Anna's theory is a bit flawed as people who do not have degrees are more likely to be entrepreneurs than those with a degree. Of course those without a degree can't become corporate lawyers. Lucky them I say.

Lorayn - not back scratching, networking.

It would lovely if things happened just because they needed doing - but it doesn't work that way.

If you want that crucial meeting or to know that critical info, don't you think that it's a hell of a lot easier to do it if the person you need it from is a friend? Of course it is.

Anna , tehy chuck them out....shudder....that is truely awful....but I suppose that is what elitism is all about eh...

I am calm Anna.
So if she doesnt meet the grades and goes to a different school, what path would you expect her to take next?
What if she drops out and decides to work at macdonalds?

More movers and shakers go to the big brand name universities than to others... so you get greater critical mass.

And most businesses are not entrepreneurial but huge quoted companies and the people at the top know each other.

This is just how it is. I'm not defending it, that is the system. So if you want to use your brain for the benefit of society, don't hide away in some academic ivory tower - mix in society.

off course education is valuable for society...but still can't see the morally superior point that was mentioned...
thte only morally superior thing to do, imo, is to make sure that our Kids get the best education suited to their needs and basically achieve as much as they possibly can...

Back-scratching-networking call it what you will.
The bottom line is if two people need something from each other, regardless whether or not they went to university together (because of course, who is to say they kept in touch??) then it will happen.

Lorayn - I'll cross that bridge when it comes to it. Personally I find it much more productive to map out a life path in which my daughter will have the maximum opportunity to fulfil her potential, not to map out contingency plans for failure.

but the right adress has nothing to do with mixing in society? High society maybe, but not society

"map out a life path"

Lorayn - well, you have tremendous faith in human nature to do things purely on rational grounds .

Have you tried cold calling the PM? Do you he'd take your call?

So you have this plan for her school, but no back up plan???
The simple answer then would have just been, 'if that makes her happy then so be it'.
Also the answer most parents would use too.