to think that nearby doctors should help in a potential emergency

[Gwenhwyfar]

Woman bleeding from the head, but still conscious and walking around just outside an infirmary. Someone goes in to ask for a doctor while we're waiting for the ambulance to arrive and is told one will be along. 15 minutes later security guard comes out saying no doctors are available - they are there but not 'available'. The infirmary doesn't deal with urgent cases, so why couldn't a doctor/nurse leave the routine appointment to see to an emergency? Ambulance arrived in the end. I know the infirmary doctors are not A&E doctors, but surely any medical help could have been useful and don't they have a responsibility to help people even outside their scheduled work?

I think you're getting a hard time op but....
Head injuries do bleed loads, so will look really scary. but if someone is up and walking and taking that's a good sign they are ok. You did the right thing by calling for an ambulance and waiting around... if she'd then passed out, I'm sure someone from the surgery would have assisted

Any form of transport can take an injured person to hospital. They can even get a bus.

Lol. Of course. But in context becausethatsfuckingimportant we were discussing the emergency services that had been called to this particular incident. The police and the paramedics.

OP did you honestly think the police and the ambulance service are the same thing?!This thread is bizarre. Of course the doctor shouldn't have come running - you're right that the patient needed medical attention but it could easily have waited until they got to a+e, surely?

Without equipment to asses the head injury and then treat any immediate issue that could have been life threatening immediately, I doubt a doctor could do much more than the police officers already on scene, or any first aider in the area.
The police can and would transfer to hospital if between themselves and a trained paramedic operator, it was thought that there was a longer wait to get an ambulance on scene than the patient could cope with - and that transport without spinal/neck protection wouldn't put the patient at further risk.

"I am a bit sick of this culture by people of no relevant qualifications or information criticising and mistrusting the professional judgement of extremely hardworking, very clever, very well qualified people."

I didn't criticise their professional judgement, did I? I questioned their apparent refusal to help. Others have explained that it's likely they couldn't have helped in this situation, which is fine, but I don't know how I'm supposed to be able to tell the difference between something that is urgent and something that is not. A bleeding head looked like an emergency to me.

"Op, you posted here that you felt it was an energency. The nearby doctor didn't think so. You do not accept their answer. "

I never got that answer. We just got 'no doctor is available'.

"ou have no medical training but you keep insisting that the doctor should have seen the woman"

How do I "keep insisting". I accepted from the first posts that it seems I was wrong to think a bleeding head was an emergency, but there is no way I could have known that at the beginning.

"accept what someone says who does know what they're talking about."

I do accept what people are saying BUT there were police officers at the scene and they were happy when it first seemed a doctor would come out. I presume police have more knowledge of these things, but they didn't say a doctor couldn't help and should be cancelled.

"Much of this should be general knowledge, and 20 years ago it would have been."

I was an adult 20 years ago!

"If you didn't want to get involved in a fight what makes you think doctors would want to?"

It wasn't a fight by the time we asked for a doctor. There was a fight going on when I arrived.

" it's pretty basic stuff that an ambulance and not a police car takes injured people to hospital."

I've actually been told that an ambulance takes someone who might need help during the actual transportation to A&E, but in some cases you can go there in a car.

Some have suggested bus or taxi, but this woman wasn't in a state to take either of those. I also wonder which taxi would agree to having a bleeding passenger.

"OP did you honestly think the police and the ambulance service are the same thing?!"

When did I say that? I know they're different, but I thought police could also take someone to A&E if no ambulance was coming and the person didn't need special ambulance transporation (as Beerwench also says).

some have suggested bus or taxi, but this woman wasn't in a state to take either of those. I also wonder which taxi would agree to having a bleeding passenger

I agree with you there. I had a similar injury (which didn't need any more than basic first aid at the scene) and tried to convince the paramedics that I was fine to take a taxi rather than waste nhs resources. They laughed at me then insisted I got in the wheelchair.

Head cuts bleed like buggery and usually look much worse than they are. Next a doctor coming out onto the street is not insured, so if there is a misadventure, it is s nightmare. This is also one of the reasons why nurses do not wear uniforms outside.

I once had to bollock a medical student for pretending to be a doctor and giving very diff advice to someone having breathing difficulties. Booze and a big ego are not a great mix, although I doubt he would ever have done it again.

Diff should read duff.

It makes sense that the Drs at that particular hospital didn't see the woman given the specialties that the OP listed, even if they were free to attend.

They knew she was walking around, so not an immediate medical emergency. And also that the police were in attendance, so first aid (which would be all the Drs would have done anyway) would be administered.

If it was just a cut, scalps bleed a lot and suturing/gluing would probably be the treatment, neither of which they would be geared up to do in a community setting like OP described.

If it was more than a cut, to diagnose this the woman would need and X Ray and maybe a scan, and again neither of these could be provided in the setting described.

A lot of people I have trained in first aid are nurses as although they are trained their first aid still needs updating.

"This is also one of the reasons why nurses do not wear uniforms outside. "

Where I live nurses aren't supposed to wear their uniforms outside for hygiene reasons, but I've seen loads of them in uniform on the bus. A nurse I know said it's against the rules, but it's because they don't have lockers at the hospital.

You can bet the police officers know basic first aid. All anyone could do is put pressure on to stop the bleeding. If walking and talking it seems they are fine to wait for ambulance.

You don't need to do a first aid course to treat a person next time but it may give u some basic information so you don't worry next time. Alternatively just trust the police and the GP's have made the most appropriate decision.

"Alternatively just trust the police"

The police were happy when they heard a doctor would be out so their behaviour also led me to believe a doctor could have helped.

A doctor would have helped. At the hospital. Unless the person was at deaths door then the police wouldn't be expecting a nearby doctor to assist as it was an apparently minor injury at that time. Of course it's great if someone medically qualified can come in and take over but not the end of the world if they don't in this circumstance.

Well, no, but that wasn't clear to me as I'm not medically trained.

You keep saying you're not medically trained and you didn't know basic first aid information yet you feel sufficiently knowledgeable to be annoyed because the medically trained people deemed this "walking wounded" woman as not a priority.

Either you have enough medical knowledge to judge the medical personnel for not coming to assess the injured woman because you could see it was (or had the potential to be) a serious injury, or you have no medical knowledge and therefore have no standing upon which to judge the medical personnel for not coming to assess the injured woman because you have no idea of whether it required their attention.

melj - did you miss the part where I said the police were happy that we thought a doctor was coming out? This obviously suggested to me that a doctor's help would have been a good thing so my 'judgement' was not just based on my own opinion, but also the police's and other witnesses.

Obviously I'm the thickest person in the world, along with everyone else who was around last night and everyone on MN is first-aid trainer...except for the medics.

The police were happy when they heard a doctor would be out so their behaviour also led me to believe a doctor could have helped.

Or maybe the police just thought that professional, medically trained person taking over >>> "My basic first aid"

"Or maybe the police just thought that professional, medically trained person taking over >>> "My basic first aid""

Well exactly! (presuming means 'is better than')

A head wound can be serious yes. But if she's conscious with no sickness, dizziness or blurred vision then it probably isn't. Yes it still needs checking out and monitoring at home afterwards in case any of those things develop. But it's not an emergency that would justify doctors leaving patients over.

I have only basic first aid training, it's not difficult to ask basic questions before panicking in this situation (I'm not saying I would be calm in an emergency. But it wasn't an emergency.)

A child could tell you that ambulances take you to hospital and police cars don't, so it's ridiculous to not realise that

"A child could tell you that ambulances take you to hospital and police cars don't, so it's ridiculous to not realise that"

People do sometimes go to hospital in cars Glum, so why not police cars if the ambulance doesn't turn up and the person doesn't need to be transported in an ambulance yet couldn't take a bus or taxi on their own.

"it's not difficult to ask basic questions before panicking in this situation (I'm not saying I would be calm in an emergency. But it wasn't an emergency.)"

First of all I didn't know that a bleeding head is not an emergency and secondly, while this part was not an emergency, the whole situation was. A car crash and a fight in the street is an emergency and it was treated as such by the police.