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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel depressed at financial talk on MN?

391 replies

FluffyPotato · 02/08/2017 14:48

I understand that people sometimes have to talk salaries for context but I think some people just like to throw out numbers so that they show their middle class status to the rest of MN.

A thread I've just seen 'DH works 30 hours a week earning 60k' and someone commenting 'oh my DH earns 100k'.

I work bloody hard 40 hours a week and get about 1200 a month before tax.

AIBU to think that some MNers just like to boast their household income figures to others? Getting quite sick at how middle class mums net is.

OP posts:
Dozyoldtwonk · 02/08/2017 22:47

DH & I are other from poor, difficult backgrounds and earn £100k between us. A bit of luck involved maybe (right place right time), but we've slogged & we've sacrificed and we've worked damn hard to get here. I would never, ever assume that someone earning a lot less didn't also work hard, slogs or makes sacrifices; so please don't make people feel guilty or bad for earning what they do. Your posts are coming across rather bitter but as other posters have said, salary is just a tiny part of an overall picture, in terms of happiness, quality of life & success. There are many other markers of these things.

Bluntness100 · 02/08/2017 22:52

The night man cometh, no not sure I saw that, or I've forgotten but agree your point, if someone is trolling and being dishonest, they will eventually be caught out.

drinkingtea · 02/08/2017 22:59

Bluntness she was a regular poster for years though and pretty prolific. On a site this size someone posting their fantasy alter ego without obviously breaking talk guidelines in terms of personal attacks etc could easily go unnoticed.

I wonder, when I see post after post on some threads in which posters casually claim they are top 1% earners, just what the odds are that so many of the top 1% of earners are genuinely posting about their salaries on MN...

I read an article somewhere which said that in an anonymous survey (so even less incentive to lie) a far higher than statistically likely percentage of respondents self reported as earning over 100k...

drinkingtea · 02/08/2017 23:06

Mind you I'm also curious about the very high percentage of posters who are very keen for everyone to know that they are lawyers - I suspect that a lot of them might be stretching the truth (did a law degree... Maybe an A level Wink. Obviously some really are. Quite a lot of the "teacher here OP so pay attention as my opinion therefore over-rides all others who have not told you that they are teachers " posters are not teachers. Possibly more dangerously some of the self declared doctors probably aren't doctors...

Obviously lots of the people posting that they are lawyers, teachers and doctors are, but some aren't. Same goes for all the other "experts" posting on MN at 11am on a wet term time Wednesday...

PickAChew · 02/08/2017 23:17

Wonderfully insightful close holdmecloser

DH is a highly skilled software developer who doesn't pay higher rate tax. That would seem like an oddity until I make clear that our regional average wage is about 2/3 of the national figure and he earns twice that. Also that the only people paying higher rate tax in the company he works for are the directors!

And to contrast with how low a salary that would be in the SE, we're about to put our 825 sq ft 2 double bed house with a 15' by 100' plot on the market for OIRO £65K - as PP mentioned, that would be luxury for some families on dual professional incomes in some parts of the SE. We have a garage, plus a drive big enough for one large or 2 small cars, plus plenty of space out the front to park without incurring a mumsnet thread about the ensuing headache. We've been mortgage free for years. We have no alarm on the house. We have no bars on the downstairs windows. In 14 years, all we've ever had stolen is a £1 bucket with a past its season tomato plant in it - got used for a drunken game of football, by the look of the aftermath. Walking distance from a good primary school that has only recently become oversubscribed (though the secondary schools leave a lot to be desired). Village with 3 buses in each direction per hour, rather than per week. And we don't have to count the pennies at all.

PickAChew · 02/08/2017 23:26

And this woman did have a career, though one that was affecting her MH. Then she went and had kids with SN and priorities had to change. Thankfully, unlike the OP in one of the threads that misguidedly inspired this one, DH isn't an arsehole who considers himself better than me because he earns and I don't (well not more than £50 a month, when I can get away to do it, anyhow)

PickAChew · 02/08/2017 23:37

FluffyPotato Wed 02-Aug-17 22:17:18

i was not referring to the thread about being a SAHM ffs

_

In which case you are expressing env at the mu who works 25 hours but earns less than a quarter of her h who works 30 hours (earns £60K) but she does all the housework and pays all the bills, while he gets pissed and sleeps late and tells her that she should do it all because he earns more than her Confused

That chip on your shoulder is looking a bit silly for this one.

ShellyBoobs · 02/08/2017 23:59

The thing that always makes me Hmm is when people say 'we earn' £xxk.

Unless they run a business together or they're adding both salaries together then the 'we' is meaningless.

Lucysky2017 · 03/08/2017 07:48

I don't think I;ve ever revealed what I earn not least because it varies hugely. I have £200 in my current account today as clients have not paid much this month - it is not a walk in the park being self employed. However I genuinely do earn over £100k. I have nothing to prove over that. I am also wait for it - a real proper lawyer, qualified and all that. Do people really think we are making this up? Is it so hard to believe that women can earn a lot of money in the UK and we want to show off about it? I would never in real life say what I earn - it's just naff and awful and silly and given how much more lawyers' clients earn - I was with someone last week who is worth about £100m I would guess - we know it's nothing much to go on about and it's only money anyway. However when someone asks and wants to know the potential women have - all these brilliant wonderful women on MN and their daughters who still have a chance to choose a career which earns a lot over the local call centre why should we not encourage those girls to go for it and earn well?

Someone asked careers where we earn a lot. I probably said lawyer. I have a silbing who after 20 years earns hundreds of thousands in medicine (obviously not in their 20s), my London lawyer daughters earn a fair bit and IT people on MN can earn a lot and of course finance. If you look at the jobs of my sons' school friends' parents - these are parents able to afford several sets of school fees you tend to get an idea of what jobs people do which enable them to afford those kinds of school fees. None of this is made up.

I agree I would never use "we" for earnings even though in our 20 year marriage when we both worked full time we pooled all money and assets - everything was joint always which worked for us.

TheNightmanCometh · 03/08/2017 08:02

Mind you I'm also curious about the very high percentage of posters who are very keen for everyone to know that they are lawyers - I suspect that a lot of them might be stretching the truth (did a law degree... Maybe an A level . Obviously some really are. Quite a lot of the "teacher here OP so pay attention as my opinion therefore over-rides all others who have not told you that they are teachers " posters are not teachers. Possibly more dangerously some of the self declared doctors probably aren't doctors...

Obviously lots of the people posting that they are lawyers, teachers and doctors are, but some aren't. Same goes for all the other "experts" posting on MN at 11am on a wet term time Wednesday...

Well some of us are part time!

I actually am a solicitor, though obviously you have no need to believe me on that one, but I've definitely seen a couple of people on here over the years I thought were bullshitting. Getting the law wrong was a bit of a giveaway. Though saying that, people also pontificate incorrectly about the law without pretending to have any professional qualifications.

TheNightmanCometh · 03/08/2017 08:11

Which area do you live pickachew? Is it NI by any chance?

Anatidae · 03/08/2017 08:13

i was not referring to the thread about being a SAHM ffs

That's the one I was assuming - I hadn't seen the one about the lazy partner - yes he is a prize twat for thinking earning more entitles him to duck housework.

I honestly find it hard to believe that the people on these high salaries didn't come from a higher class than the impoverished working class.

This is one thing that really does need examining. Because you can do it. I grew up in a dirt poor mining town in a poor family where no one had ever been in further education. One thing I realised when I got to university was that those who had been to 'good' schools had a totally different set of expectations to me. Their families had just assumed they go to uni and enter a certain world. My school didn't give a toss. So that's a barrier, but it's one you can overcome. Interestingly, the people who did best on my course (a very demanding hard science double degree) were the state school kids, three of us, all from quite rough schools and very modest backgrounds.

I think expectations are not high enough in many schools but the kids aren't any smarter or dumber or higher or lower potential so how do we get those kids succeeding more?

And as for luck - I think luck applies across the board, rich or poor. As I said above, a friend who was lovely, smart and wealthy died very young. Shit luck really. That type of luck doesn't differentiate.

So it's kind of right and kind of wrong to say that someone from your background could never earn more. They could. It's further to go than someone with private schooling, contacts and money but people do it. Not enough do it, which is why we have such shit social mobility.

One final thing and that's the idea of internal vs external 'locus of control' - that means whether you think success is predominantly something you do yourself (internal) or somethinh mainly done to you (external.)

I know it's not as simple as that - there are always chance factors but in the main is the idea. People with an external sense of control have lower success because they think that no matter what they do they can't succeed.

I think a big part of the answer is getting that mindset into kids young. They CAN succeed, they can do it. They need to leave the instant gratification fame for no work reality TV shit and realise that hard graft is necessary for most decent jobs.
Then we need to get expectations and support in crap schools (and there are a lot of crap schools) up to the level we see in grammars and selectives. Imagine how much talent we are missing.

Anatidae · 03/08/2017 08:15

Oh and yes, carers for example working long hours are paid awful money and that's really, really unfair. No one is saying that someone working long hours in a low paid job isn't working hard enough because they are. Our low wage economy treats many essential workers like crap

Bluntness100 · 03/08/2017 08:17

Ah, thanks drinking tea.

Op

Working class people on 10k don't? I honestly find it hard to believe that the people on these high salaries didn't come from a higher class than the impoverished working class

You work in a nursery right? You know the fees, do you consider every parent who is not getting free nursery hours to be middle class?

And working class is not always impoverished. Far from it.

treaclesoda · 03/08/2017 08:21

I'd be surprised if PickaChew is in N Ireland because I can't think of anywhere here that you could get a house in a safe area for 65k. But the real giveaway was the three buses an hour in a village. My parents live in one of the biggest towns in N Ireland and there aren't even three buses an hour there, much less in a village.

Very true about the low salaries though. I know fully qualified accountants who earn less than 20k, software developers on maybe 25k, and on a slightly different note I know loads of teachers who are in their 30s and 40s and who have never had a permanent job.

TheNightmanCometh · 03/08/2017 08:53

True, the buses should have been a giveaway!

drinkingtea · 03/08/2017 09:02

No Lucky it is not so hard to believe that a woman can earn a lot, and nobody has said that.

It is hard to be leave that so very many of the top 1% of earners are prolific MNers with a penchant for posting their salary details (and specific to the lawyers offering free legal advice on anonymous parenting forums) Wink Grin I do not mean you personally, just that the sheer numbers posting and the low % of the general population they are drawn from makes it vanishingly unlikely that they are all genuine.

Lucysky2017 · 03/08/2017 09:13

I am with you all the way on that Anat. I didn't have the hard life my mother had - she was the one who pulled herself out of poverty in a NE mining town to get educated (she was a teacher which was a huge achievement for her) - first generation to go to university. On the other side my father's father left school at 12. He was the youngest of 10. Again he was from the NE.

I really have not seen a load of fake lawyers on here. If you go to "law" boards on there you get the lady who writes will, there is a barrister user name and someone else and they are both very good at family law. I chip in if I can help although I do business law off board. I just don't see loads of fake lawyers.

The words are interesting of course because it is only certain words that it is illegaly to misuse - eg you cannog say you are a solicitor or barrister if you are not but anyone can say lawyer, legal adviser etc. You cannot say you are a doctor or nurse if you are not in law but you could say therapist or counsellor. Certain words have legal protection.

Lawyers sit at computers all day so we probably have a bit more time to post than say my doctor relative who is face to face with a patient most of the time so just isn't in the same kind of working office environment. Anyway do always challenge people because none of us want fake people making stuff up. It's not honest and not good. I have been doing admin and bills since 7am and earned not a penny yet - true revelation although someone I just invoiced says he will pay today - deo gratias for prompt paying clients.

TheNightmanCometh · 03/08/2017 09:23

I'm not saying I've seen shitloads. Just more than zero. Or at least, more than zero of them that were wrong about the law. I have also, to be fair, seen two posters (yourself being one, actually) whom I believe are legal professionals but made comments about an area they obviously don't specialise in and got it wrong. I know this because it's one of my areas!

GetAHaircutCarl · 03/08/2017 09:51

I used to be a lawyerGrin.
I generally would not comment on the law as I'm too rusty, but I do talk about how to qualify and the life style, particularly for those at the top end of the salary scale, because I have up to date information there from DH.

I suspect MN contains far more than average high earners for a number of women.

It started life as an aid to middle class mothers: where shall we go on holiday in Cornwall, what's the best make of sling etc

And it was very quickly adopted by a well educated, well heeled audience who in turn expanded it into a community where intelligent conversation took place and where women with strong opinions were not only tolerated but championed.

All the surveys of users tell MN what their audience make up is and look at the targeted advertising. We are predominantly well educated, well heeled women.

Add to the fact that there really isn't any other forum quite like MN and that it is mentioned so readily in the press, women from a certain sector of society keep congregating here. It's a virtuous circle.

Lucysky2017 · 03/08/2017 09:56

By all means let me know when I get the law wrong. I learn more law every day and sadly a lot of law is very unclear. I obviously try not to get it wrong. Every time I give a law course I tend to learn something even from my delegates. I sometimes joke I should be paying them.

I agree with GetaHair. I also think it's really good if MN has more posters these days who are not middle class and/or do not earn much as it helps all of us always to mix with all kinds of different people. It gets a bit much at home living with 3 Corbynites and 2 vegans at times.....I am often in a minority of one so no change there.... a bit of debate and difference does all of us the world of good.

TheNightmanCometh · 03/08/2017 09:58

Plus, of necessity, to be a reasonably frequent poster on MN you have to be able to read and write to a fairly good standard in English and to have sufficient internet access that you feel ok wasting some of it arguing about parking etc. Think of it as a venn diagram. There's actually a lot of people who aren't able to fit into all of those circles. But women who have a professional qualification and/or a high income usually will.

Notonthestairs · 03/08/2017 10:06

I think its fine to get depressed/annoyed/irritated/jealous by some threads - anyone who is able to say that their DH is their best friend (we're going through a patch where we're not on the same page seemingly about anything), anyone with low debts, anyone with living parents, anyone with a job, anyone with NT children, anyone with nice hair, anyone that weighs within normal levels of BMI, anyone thats gone through the menopause without mood swings and hot flushes, etc etc. MN is littered with annoying threads. I still come back for more because in amongst the stuff that winds me up are brilliantly funny, literate, wise and engaged posters. I have to shake off the other stuff as my own issues, which they are.

GetAHaircutCarl · 03/08/2017 10:11

anatodae your point about locus of control is very interesting.

Certainly I see myself as having a large amount of control over my own destiny and my earning potential.

I mean I accept the outside factors that none of us control. But on a day to day level I manage my work and output quite forensically.

MelvinThePenguin · 03/08/2017 10:15

I see where you're coming from OP. It doesn't depress me (I just think 'such is life') but I don't understand why anyone would want to share their income so readily.

I've posted a number of comments on the other thread without declaring our income. I may have been asked to do so, but it was totally irrelevant to the aim that OP was trying to achieve. So yes, I did feel in that case that some people were stating their income for the sake of it.

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