To be incandescent, mad, furious and livid about this bossiness?

[Bemusedandpuzzled]

Ok, I'm not really livid. I'm bemused and a bit puzzled. And in need of opinions from more emotionally intelligent Mumsetters than I am about this situation. (It's a MIL one I'm afraid).

So I'm going to give you an example of something trivial that happens maybe 8 to 10 times a day when we visit with MIL. If someone can explain to me why she gets upset and what I can do about it, I would be grateful.

Here's the latest incidence of this peculiar behaviour. DH and I are sitting around the dinner table, talking about our plans for the day after we leave DPIL house and start 5 days of holiday by ourselves. We are two able bodied, relatively sensible people in our late 30s, no kids. We have booked a cottage 3-4 hrs drive from PIL house, taking a scenic route. We are leaving early the next morning.

I say that we plan to visit Garden X on the way. MIL says that Garden X is a massive diversion from our route. I say it's only 5 miles, which is fine. MIL says that we will not have time to see Garden X as it is large. I explain that with a morning start, we will have ample time to spend 3 hours at Garden X, and to get the drive done and still arrive in loads of time. MIL now insists, with raised voice, that it's not possible to do Garden X in the time and that it will be ruined by the rush. She suggests Garden Y instead, which is further away and not of interest. We politely say Garden Y is not a high priority, but we will bear it in mind for future trips. MIL proceeds to download websites and produce brochures for Garden Y, and insist that we go for 10 minutes straight, and is almost yelling at us that Garden X is too large for 3 hours. In the end I have to say, quietly and firmly, "thanks, but we are going to Garden X". MIL then sulks passive-aggressively.

I realise this is ridiculous and trivial and I wouldn't bay an eyelid if it happened once. But it's happening several times a day, over everything from cooking to cleaning to our plans that don't involve PIL. The bossiness is, in every case, an insistence that their advice is followed. We have no record of making mistakes or errors of judgement that would warrant this.

Why is she doing this? What is the emotional logic behind the behaviour? The recommendations are well meaning and often the advice sometimes good, but the insistence that we do exactly as she says borders on direct rudeness. Its not always possible just to smile and nod either, for example, she will insist I eat something I have repeatedly declined. I am pretty good at boundaries, but I find it wearing. How can I get out of the dynamic of being constantly bossed around?

(For the record, we went to Garden X in spite of it all, and 3 hours was ample).

some people can't step out of the parent role, regardless of however old anyone might be

That's horrible from the adult child's point of view though. Why can't they be involved in family life without the need to take over?
MIL does this, it's horrible. When you've got kids and they undermine parenting decisions it's even more damaging.

Most controlling behaviours come from a place of fear. Maybe a fear of not being needed?

Surely if you're being controlling though you're pushing away the people who care about you in the first place.

Re: the gardens. Don't engage. Either say "could do" or "we will make our decision on the way"

Re: chips "no thanks" (repeat repeat repeat - no explanation needed).

Or .... I've answered that - did you not hear me? Do you need your hearing tested?

You joke, but my MIL has got a lot better since getting hearing aids (as long as you keep telling her to put them in). I thought she didn't listen to a word any of us said, but it turns out that, especially in a room full of people, she couldn't hear well enough to keep up with the conversation and was a bit in denial and also too embarrassed to ask people to keep repeating themselves.

I spent short holidays with a friend like this. I concluded that she felt threatened by anyone whose preferences differed from her own.

Wow. Tiresome woman.

Drizzle, that's brilliant - I've had very similar conversations.

Drizzle and Basket sounds so so like my MIL. And yet I remember my MIL talking about her own mother being like this, and I wonder if it's inevitable that we will turn into this.

What a terrifying thought! My family are more of the kind who Get Things Done but I will be watching the children for any faffing tendencies.

I'm laughing at the "Mrs Doyle feedback loop".

It's bonkers isn't it.

I have to be blunt to the point of rudeness with MIL regarding food when I'm not hungry. But she never ever offers a drink. (I get my own now). Bizarre.

I spent short holidays with a friend like this. I concluded that she felt threatened by anyone whose preferences differed from her own.

SIL is rather like the non-food examples.

She refuses point blank to drive but starts issuing diktats about who is and isn't driving which car and having which combination of passengers many weeks in advance of any extended-family trips or activities. I just ignore her and refuse to comply. Passengers don't get to tell drivers. I also made it quite clear to DH she won't be in my car. However I may occasionally relent temporarily for short journeys in pity/sympathy for whoever got stuck with her last time!

I laughed so hard at "I have now eaten the letter"!! Know that feeling of desperation!!

This thread has really helped. Not least because it's got me seeing the funny side, but also because the things some people have kindly shared are so similar that it is clear this is some kind of group behaviour and not entirely individual! I feel less alone, and more amused.

I also hear those saying this comes from fear. I suspect it is some kind of fear of redundancy. MIL has this bizarre and contradictory tendency to treat is as children sometimes, and at other times to erase all age difference between us. So she will ask me - in all seriousness- whether I have considered a walk-in bath and dayglow strips on my stairs as part of home renovations we are about to start. It is well meaning advice, but the wilful ignoring of the age difference makes me wonder whether this is, in fact, ALL about the age difference and some fears connected with being older. Dh recently got a new role at work, which puts him into a relatively successful and powerful position (emphasis on RELATIVELY!!), and PIL actually seemed to resent it as an affront to them.They were definitely not happy about it and I haven't been able to work out why, but maybe all difference is a threat.

Oh, and in answer to the question about DH: he is surprisingly same considering he did have a childhood of this. He's worked really hard at eradicating ingrained patterns of anxious thought (CBT), and the end result now seems to be an almost amazing level of calmness and an ability to handle angry or upset people very well indeed. We have worked together at putting boundaries in place, e.g. shorter visits and being more direct and persistent if we feel steamrollered. It has taken time to learn to work as a team and I'm not saying we are perfect at jt- we are still in a process of figuring it out. We know each other much better now than we did at the start, which helps us both to know the tiny signs that indicate stress or upset.

SANE not SAME!!

My mum used to be like that. By the time I reached my mid-40's, she realised that I was now a grown-up and capable of working things out for myself.

I think with some people there isn't much to be done. With some the advice about not sharing plans works fine, but others it's no defence. In my case any firmness is taken as very rude, and anything less than firm isn't noticed. The only thing to do is laugh about it later.

MIL never pushes food - she actively removes it. Once they were staying and DP ordered a takeaway. Just as I was putting stuff on my plate the baby woke for a feed, and when I came back she'd thrown my food away. Last time we visited them she asked what I was going to make for the toddler and DP said she'll just have the same as us, but she didn't get a plate or portion and had to share with me - before the next meal we needed to run to the shop 'for nappies' and stopped in at Greggs. There are many more examples, it's a sustained campaign.

My mother does the same thing about me getting promoted/ a new pet/ moving house/ anything fun and new whatsoever. Always a negative and disapproving comment about it. Always advises strongly against it. I think it is fear of change, and she doesn´t seem to grasp that it is my life which is changing, not hers. I now don´t tell her anything new that is going on until it will well established.

Don't engage. Just smile and move on. You don't need to convince anyone that your decision is valid.