To be incandescent, mad, furious and livid about this bossiness?

[Bemusedandpuzzled]

Ok, I'm not really livid. I'm bemused and a bit puzzled. And in need of opinions from more emotionally intelligent Mumsetters than I am about this situation. (It's a MIL one I'm afraid).

So I'm going to give you an example of something trivial that happens maybe 8 to 10 times a day when we visit with MIL. If someone can explain to me why she gets upset and what I can do about it, I would be grateful.

Here's the latest incidence of this peculiar behaviour. DH and I are sitting around the dinner table, talking about our plans for the day after we leave DPIL house and start 5 days of holiday by ourselves. We are two able bodied, relatively sensible people in our late 30s, no kids. We have booked a cottage 3-4 hrs drive from PIL house, taking a scenic route. We are leaving early the next morning.

I say that we plan to visit Garden X on the way. MIL says that Garden X is a massive diversion from our route. I say it's only 5 miles, which is fine. MIL says that we will not have time to see Garden X as it is large. I explain that with a morning start, we will have ample time to spend 3 hours at Garden X, and to get the drive done and still arrive in loads of time. MIL now insists, with raised voice, that it's not possible to do Garden X in the time and that it will be ruined by the rush. She suggests Garden Y instead, which is further away and not of interest. We politely say Garden Y is not a high priority, but we will bear it in mind for future trips. MIL proceeds to download websites and produce brochures for Garden Y, and insist that we go for 10 minutes straight, and is almost yelling at us that Garden X is too large for 3 hours. In the end I have to say, quietly and firmly, "thanks, but we are going to Garden X". MIL then sulks passive-aggressively.

I realise this is ridiculous and trivial and I wouldn't bay an eyelid if it happened once. But it's happening several times a day, over everything from cooking to cleaning to our plans that don't involve PIL. The bossiness is, in every case, an insistence that their advice is followed. We have no record of making mistakes or errors of judgement that would warrant this.

Why is she doing this? What is the emotional logic behind the behaviour? The recommendations are well meaning and often the advice sometimes good, but the insistence that we do exactly as she says borders on direct rudeness. Its not always possible just to smile and nod either, for example, she will insist I eat something I have repeatedly declined. I am pretty good at boundaries, but I find it wearing. How can I get out of the dynamic of being constantly bossed around?

(For the record, we went to Garden X in spite of it all, and 3 hours was ample).

Most controlling behaviours come from a place of fear. Maybe a fear of not being needed?
Be curious, ask her. " I can see you feel very strongly about this, I wonder why it's so important to you that we do that?"

whirlycurly PIL are both like your MIL. Pair of faffers that you have to give more warning that we're going to leave than it takes to get the toddler ready.

Any object anywhere is at risk of being picked up and inspected - then they will come to find me and ask 'where do you want this?' WHERE I LEFT IT.

Does she drink? My dads ex used to do this it was most irritating but I don't think she realised because she was mainly drunk.

My mother can be like this. Sometimes I snap when she goes on and on and on, but I have found two other strategies that seem to help. Firstly, occasionally when she asks for the 6th time, I´ll reply that I´ve already answered that question several times, what reply does she remember that I gave? Often, it turns out that she has in fact heard me say no, but it just hasn't been processed as an answer. The second strategy is after answering the question 2-3 times, I don´t reply at all. I just act like she hasn't´t said anything. That also seems to stop her continuing to ask.

One thing to bear in mind is that if you are so insistent that, in your example, Garden X is best - you may end up going the same way as your MIL with your children.

My late mum used to drive me mad with this. Dad was always under the thumb very hen pecked by her and she was a very bossy controlling cha racier when we were kids. But when l grew up and had kids of my own it was if she never made the jump from a parent/ child relationship to an adult to adult one.
One particularly enraging habit of hers was obsessing about getting things done that were really not her problem. For example when she visited our house if l just happened to mention something l had bought was being returned to the shop for an exchange or she spotted a letter ready to be posted she would just obsess and nag and hint all bloody day about getting it done and constantly make suggestions like 'if we go to xyz we could go by that shop/ post that letter on the way back ( or whatever) l used dig my heels in the more she did it the more determined l was not to do it just to annoy her really. She would go into a terrible ever increasing sulk though as the day went on and it would often end up with her in tears or stomping out. I started avoiding leaving any 'pending' tasks on show or mentioning them.

My MIL seems to see everything we do differently from her as a personal slight. We use a different type of washing up sponge than her and there was a three year period in which we were lectured of the merits of the one she used every visit which drove me round the bend. I'm not sure why she feels so strongly about stuff. Maybe she feels she knows better than us because of life experience?

If you can bear it asking endless detailed questions about the thing she's promoting seems to be the best tactic and then not actually doing anything to follow it up.

I just wanted to clink a glass of wine with all you fellow sufferers! You've had me laughing with recognition (and relief) reading your stories. I will respond in more detail tomorrow but it is really REALLY good to know I'm not alone right now. Thank you so much for sharing. Mumsnet is just the best for this stuff. Thank you. Unmumsnetty hugs of solidarity!!

What's your husband like OP? Did he have a wholw childhood of this?!

How about >big smile < Muuum-in-law (insert name) I thought we covered that one - dyou want me to write it out iand take copies in triplicate ~wink, wink~???

Followed by a lIttle, jokey hug, if you can bear it ...

OR

Here we go, my answer will still be the same after 15 attempts, shall we cut out the next 14 attempts to bludgeon me into submission ...Mum-in-law, you get top marks for persistence, I'll give you that. >big grin

I know that well Bahhh. Every non urgent task that has nothing to do with her is MIL's business. Is this letter here for posting? No for decoration, MIL. Are you wanting to nip out to post it? No, it's not urgent. We could go to the high street if there's a postbox there? There isn't. Shall we go to the park? Is there one on the way? Yes, but it's not urgent and DD has her lunch in half an hour and then a nap. You'll be cutting it fine if you leave it until after she wakes up. No, the last collection is quite late, and as I say it's not urgent. If you want to go now I'll look after DD while you run to the postbox. I HAVE NOW EATEN THE LETTER.

I must be related to half the posters on this thread, we all have the same mother/MIL! My mum has always been a bit like this but has definitely got worse with age, I used to argue with her and we'd get into terrible rows but I finally realised it just wasn't worth the aggro. Now, I just say 'huh huh, sounds good' nod, smile and go and please myself. I'm a bit scared of getting the same way if I'm honest and I've told my dc to tell me if I ever come across all control-freaky.

Yes, I agree, it's her way of dealing with fear and managing the fact that she has no control over your life.

I think with the garden example saying 'oh yes, lovely idea, we'll do that' and then changing the subject (while doing what you want of course) would work well.

The chips thing? Yes, much harder, but I like the suggesting to ask her whether she's forgotten [evil]

Or .... I've answered that - did you not hear me? Do you need your hearing tested?

My MIL is exactly the same, I spend the least amount of time with her as possible. On the odd occasion that we are in the same company and she starts up again then I'll make a swift exit. It's taken about 15 years for me to do this but seems to do the trick! Unfortunately she hasn't seem to get the message and has got worse with age but at least I now have a strategy of dealing with the shite. Good luck!

OP I think you are engaging too much.

*I say that we plan to visit Garden X on the way.
MIL
I say it's only 5 miles, which is fine.
MIL
I explain that with a morning start, we will have ample time to spend 3 hours at Garden X, and to get the drive done and still arrive in loads of time.
MIL
In the end I have to say, quietly and firmly, "thanks, but we are going to Garden X". MIL then sulks passive-aggressively. *

You only need to tell her once- then smile and wave.

You are unwittingly playing her game when you start the counter argument- don't get involved.
A simple "OK" or " That's interesting" should be your last comment.
Then simply smile.

It's not worth getting incandescent with rage over her.

Ahh yes, this. Thankfully my family don't do it but I have a work colleague who does and at first was a nightmare.

What PPs have alluded to and what I find helps is something called Socratic Questioning - it's used in education and also CBT. The point is to get people to consider why they think the things they think, but to get there by themselves so it doesn't feel too confrontational.

You try to find out why what they want you to do is so important. It turns the questioning around and can be helpful to them, and also take the wind right out of their sails!

Yep. Last time at PIL. MIL hands me my shoes. 'Are these yours'? Well yes. 'Here you are. Don't forget them!' I'd been there 5 minutes, and we were staying overnight. More to the point, who the fuck forgets their shoes?!

She sees that you are two independent people and that her parenting role in life is no longer required. She wants to be helpful and to feel like she's taught you something you previously didn't know. It sounds maddening but for arguments' sake, rather than 'picking your battles', pick times when you humour her and seemingly take her advice. After all, it doesn't stem from a bad place.

Basket yes!!! That letter example is exactly it. The art of turning an utterly banal task into a long and dull conversation you don't wish to have.

I am admittedly one of the least patient people ever and I really can't cope with faffers. My boredom threshold is way too low to accommodate their fussy ways.

We also have the sorry ritual (if staying with mil) that she cannot find her keys when returning to the house. Every bloody time. She's turning her coat pockets and bag inside out on the doorstep while we get rained on. The yappy dog then escapes when we finally get the front door open.

Mil then claims that the only way of capturing the dog is to somehow entice her into the back seat of a (my) car so I stand there by my nice new dog-hair-free car while everyone yells for her and then slam the door shut once she finally leaps in. By which point the house keys are probably lost again. (I'm not making this shit up. Unfortunately.)

I spend a good deal of time thinking dark thoughts about what a fucking farce the whole situation is. And trying not to show it.

And breathe

I think some of you need to stop sharing so much info with Pil. Don't tell them plans for your travel home, no conversation arises. Re chips, take chips, bin them, say you didn't want them. Easy. I think it's much easier to be blunt and not share details.

Basket 'I've now eaten the letter" That made me laugh out loud.......and whrly ' l'm not making this shit up unfortunately ' hahaha

My mum is like yours, Baahh!

She once shouted at me and stormed out of the car over a discussion about a garage door remote control.

DH and I were negotiating buying a house. It wasn't going well and it was very stressful, I was running around like an idiot. Mum kept asking me about the owners and whether they would remember to leave me the remote control. It was the furthest thing from my mind.

I find it really hard to shut the topic down, anything blunt (and nothing other tHan blunt works) there are tears.

My MIL drove me mad for years for similar reasons to above. 'You'll have chips', 'ah you will', 'I'll just put them in front of you', 'here's a few more', 'you haven't eaten them', 'eat them', 'eat them', etc.

I used to get really cross about it but my lovely dh came up with a great way to deal with her - in this example he'd get the plate of chips and wave them under her nose saying to eat them, might try to put a few in her pocket or go around the room screeching 'eat the chips'. We'd laugh at the ridiculousness of it.
It's a control thing and a need to be needed and be right. Best response is to say 'mmmm... yes we might do that...' and do whatever you want.

Basket! - My mum is like this, not as aggressive and direct as the OP's MIL but she frets and hints about non-issues for which she has zero responsibility, whilst often inferring her interlocutor's incompetence or disinterest.
Example: "DH and I are going to Rome to see Coldplay on Friday."

• "Who's looking after DD2?!" -wide eyes, alarm in voice, despite my never forgetting to provide safe childcare in 26 years of parenting.
• "The Suttons are coming over for a BBQ"
• "You'll need chairs! And food! Enough food for everyone. It will be [counts aloud on her fingers] 9 people! So you're going to need food and chairs for at least 9 people!"

She even does this over third parties: "So when is the Sutton's flight?"

• "They're leaving earlier than us."

- "Earlier!!!!!?????"

• "Yes, earlier."

-"Well how much earlier is earlier!!!????" -" I don't know, I didn't ask." -"Well the [teenage] girls will have to be up! And they'll have to pack!"..... - These girls being the Suttons' daughters, resident with them and fuck all to do with me or my mum

My favourite is when she asks entirely legitimate questions about my DDS' future plans, but in the same alarmed tone with wide eyes, adding accusingly "And will she be happy do you think?" [No! But I don't care, we've just picked that school to piss her off and ruin her life.]
It makes me want to revert to my eye-rolling teenage self. The most annoying thing is that she's so hypersensitive that if I either did the same to her, or pointed out the implications of her comments, there'd be tears and I'd never hear the end of it.