To be incandescent, mad, furious and livid about this bossiness?

[Bemusedandpuzzled]

Ok, I'm not really livid. I'm bemused and a bit puzzled. And in need of opinions from more emotionally intelligent Mumsetters than I am about this situation. (It's a MIL one I'm afraid).

So I'm going to give you an example of something trivial that happens maybe 8 to 10 times a day when we visit with MIL. If someone can explain to me why she gets upset and what I can do about it, I would be grateful.

Here's the latest incidence of this peculiar behaviour. DH and I are sitting around the dinner table, talking about our plans for the day after we leave DPIL house and start 5 days of holiday by ourselves. We are two able bodied, relatively sensible people in our late 30s, no kids. We have booked a cottage 3-4 hrs drive from PIL house, taking a scenic route. We are leaving early the next morning.

I say that we plan to visit Garden X on the way. MIL says that Garden X is a massive diversion from our route. I say it's only 5 miles, which is fine. MIL says that we will not have time to see Garden X as it is large. I explain that with a morning start, we will have ample time to spend 3 hours at Garden X, and to get the drive done and still arrive in loads of time. MIL now insists, with raised voice, that it's not possible to do Garden X in the time and that it will be ruined by the rush. She suggests Garden Y instead, which is further away and not of interest. We politely say Garden Y is not a high priority, but we will bear it in mind for future trips. MIL proceeds to download websites and produce brochures for Garden Y, and insist that we go for 10 minutes straight, and is almost yelling at us that Garden X is too large for 3 hours. In the end I have to say, quietly and firmly, "thanks, but we are going to Garden X". MIL then sulks passive-aggressively.

I realise this is ridiculous and trivial and I wouldn't bay an eyelid if it happened once. But it's happening several times a day, over everything from cooking to cleaning to our plans that don't involve PIL. The bossiness is, in every case, an insistence that their advice is followed. We have no record of making mistakes or errors of judgement that would warrant this.

Why is she doing this? What is the emotional logic behind the behaviour? The recommendations are well meaning and often the advice sometimes good, but the insistence that we do exactly as she says borders on direct rudeness. Its not always possible just to smile and nod either, for example, she will insist I eat something I have repeatedly declined. I am pretty good at boundaries, but I find it wearing. How can I get out of the dynamic of being constantly bossed around?

(For the record, we went to Garden X in spite of it all, and 3 hours was ample).

We get these things too, it drives us mad. So far we have tried boring them to death with detail about the route taken -don't try it, Stepdad loved it and started looking up new options on a 1989 road atlas then we tried just being vague 'oh you know just sort of wended our way south and turned right at Salisbury' that turned into a similar conversation. Last time we made a note of 101 things not to mention under any circumstances while we were staying. That worked except we ran out of conversation after 10 minutes. It was a very long weekend

Agree with PPs, it's probably her way of feeling like she is a useful person and of showing her love. Refusal of food and advice = refusal of love.
Perhaps tell her next time through gritted teeth look, MIL we're not doing that, but we still love you, ok? Might make her think, as I bet she hasn't joined the dots to understand why she is behaving this way.
Either that or she has a Margaret Thatcher complex

Curly has it. Tis control freakery at its best/worst.

Its about control, obviously but its also about being right and it being earth shatteringly important that everyone acknowledges that she is right.
Its a peculiar trait I've noticed, of people who are hugely invested in the minutia of other peoples lives. My late MIL was renowned for her obsession over what every one was doing and her constant interference in her family's life was the cause of much unhappiness.
You know the mansplaining phenomenon...this is the female version!

Wow! So annoying! Good luck if you have children

Ugh sounds draining ....... you just need to nod and say "yes, good idea" a lot and then do what you want anyway

My MIL is exactly the same as yours kingthistle. She used to be so much more relaxed but now the need to do everything exactly perfectly right makes her seem like a control freak & doesn't make for a relaxing visit. I even have to time our visits so that they don't line up with my pmt

She has always been like this but it has magnified as she has got older, the older she has got the more intense the scenes

We share the same relation clearly.

I sometimes leave the room, sometimes respond with a mm and sometimes stand my ground and get in a huge row.

It's been the same for over 20 years (& she was around my age when I met her) so I just have to build my boundaries to not get driven mad by it. It won't change.

My MIL does the chips thing and I've only just realised it's because she wants the chips but doesn't want to be the only one eating them. The only thing I've found that works is to give a bit more detail in your answer when I decline. Like, if I say "no thanks" we get locked into the Mrs Doyle Feedback Loop, but if I say "oh, no thanks I can't because of , but if you want some yourself I'd just go ahead, I would do another day if it wasn't for ". It kind of shuts down the "debate" a bit better.

My parents do this but without the sulking, which makes it bearable. I think it comes from a place of love and caring and wanting us to have the best of whatever is being discussed. It is coupled with the tendency to not actually listen to me (they look like they are listening but don't really hear me IYSWIM). They think they are being kind and helpful (and sometimes what they say is useful) and simply don't realise that at nearly 50yo I am happier making my own fuck-ups from time to time but am usually pretty good at make my own decisions.
Let it wash over you so long as there is no sulking involved. I would definitely tackle the sulking.

Nod and smile and do what you want (harder with the chips, obviously - unless you want to end up like Bessie Bunter you have to be firm there). but otherwise accept all advice and then ignore it.

I suspect she is feeling unimportant and inconsequential. My mum can be like this, she wants her opinion to be important to you. Maybe let her win a few. My old dad used to say don't argue with your mother, just agree with her (and do want you want anyway).
She is getting older, her children do not need her and everyone has their own opinion and do not need hers, she is struggling to let go.

Advice re: chips. Accept her kind offer, pull the chips in front of you, continue chatting while ignoring the chips, when she presses the point say "Oh dear, they seem to have gone cold. Never mind I was feeling full anyway".

My best friend's mother is exactly like this - visiting is painful and it's why my bf lives abroad! My bf says they'll never change so they've changed how they respond to them. Bff expertly changes the conversation/gives them distraction tasks like 'could you help dcs with that zip'/gives their mum a big hug or smacking kiss on the cheek and tells them 'you're the best!' (although never says the best what ), 'that's great advice' and then does exactly what they always intended. It doesn't make their wittering insistence go away but it mitigates it to bearable. They will occasionally say 'mum that's enough' and she get some very huffy but they're quite pragmatic/it's her problem and not theirs.

Pallas makes an excellent point about being right, as well as controlling. The writer on depression (Dorothy Rowe?) has said to someone I knew (but maybe in writing too?) that people would rather be right than be happy. This is very sad, and occasionally I need to remind myself that I would rather not have this on my gravestone...

whispers my mum is a bit like this. she really frets about things in advance and i think control freakery helps her. but, it's a pita for me sometimes. she will suggest something, and you just say 'oh, no thanks' or whatever, and she latches onto it and just won't let it go! you get backed into a corner where you have to come out fighting and there's literally nothing you can do to avoid the fight. it can be inconsequential things but also big important things that she KNOWS your opinion on and just carries on backing you into the corner, trying to MAKE you accept her opinion on it.... I do find it very difficult and a sticking point in our relationship but I can't really bring it up because i know she'll just focus on it massively and we won't 'move on', ever.

Hi OP, my MIL is like this and lives nearby. Tbh I'm frightened about what she will be like when children arrive. I can tolerate constantly being told what to do (just about) but when it involves my childcare decisions I worry I will explode. I am fairly firm, I just smile and ignore, or say eg, "We are going to Garden X." "But Garden Y is better!" "We are going to Garden X." "You won't have enough time." "I guess we will find out when we go to Garden X"...It annoys her and sometimes induces sulking but I don't care, I'm a grown-up!

Mine has moments of this. She also doesn't listen to other people so doesn't necessarily notice if you are actually agreeing with her. Just never discuss anything with your ILs until after you have done it. Be super vague about anything you are planning they won't actually be there for. With the unwelcome suggestions, just keep repeating "mmm" "could do" and "we'll bear that in mind" over and over again until they get bored.

Yep rigid thinking.
It gets worse with age in most people because they don't have to be flexible for children or work colleagues they're sometimes in a bubble where everything they meet with is due to their own choosing.

My dad always criticises me for not growing my salad leaves and buying them and for not buying sacks of potatoes instead of 4 a week from the supermarket.

Last time he was here, I asked him jokily if he knew that he had told me that literally every time he has visited my house in my adult life!

He looked a bit shocked and hopefully won't do it again. because it makes me want to do it more

Maybe instead of ignoring or repeatedly saying no, you could try asking why. Challenge her by asking her reasoning. Very politely.
"Mil, you have just asked me 10 times to eat the chips. I have declined and will continue to do so. But could you kindly tell me why it is so important to you that I eat the chips? I would like to understand why you are insisting."

Every time she starts going on about something, let her go on for a bit and then ask why she is insisting on it. Keep asking why - not why should you eat the chips but why is she insisting.

I think Harry enfield dealt with this..
'only me'

what happens if you play along with her even though you have no intention of doing what she wants? not always possible of course eg. the chips example, but something like 'wow mil, i hadn't considered garden y, but now you mention it it sounds intriguing!' and then spend hours talking about garden y and it's attractions. you're not going to garden y, you never will, but it's to give your mil a feeling that she's contributed. yes it's about control, but it's also about being relevant in your life.

some people can't step out of the parent role, regardless of however old anyone might be.

i'd also try and agree with her without actually agreeing. 'oh so interesting! tell me more!'. with personal stuff, i'd just ask her how she does it and then avoid making comparisons or referring to yourself.

and i think you need to make your visits a lot shorter!

Ask her if she has forgotten.
'Do you want my chips'
'No'
Do you want my chips?'
'You just asked me that and I said No, Have you forgotten ?'

'You should go to garden Y'
'I just told you we're going to garden X, have you forgotten or didn't you hear me ?'