To think the 'information' the midwife gave me is almost propaganda?

[ethelfleda]

Recently had 24 week appointment. This is our first. Midwife asked if I had thought about feeding yet. I said I plan on breastfeeding. I say 'plan' because (as with everything else baby related) I am trying to keep an open mind as from what I hear, things don't always go according to plan! So I will try hard to breastfeed but I won't beat myself up if it doesn't work out for us.
She handed me a 20 odd page pamphlet thing and said it contained useful information on caring for a new born.

I started to read it today thinking it would be basic NHS info on how to feed, wind and change your baby etc. It was actually 20 odd pages of info telling me basically that if i don't breastfeed, my baby is more likely to develop cancer (as am I) as well as be admitted to hospital in their first year of life etc etc among other very scary statistics.
The language used was shocking IMO! And seemingly designed to make women who don't/can't breastfeed feel awful! Has anyone else had this information handed to them and thought it was way over the top??

Lots of women get on fine with mixed feeding, MsHarry but you wouldn't know it judging by the 'advice' given.

It's a shame - You can imagine how many women are put off.

In my experience, nipple confusion is a load of rubbish. I'm not saying it doesn't happen at all but it's nowhere near as common as people seem to think. DD will take a bottle of expressed milk from DH if I'm out at the pub and somehow still remembers how to feed from a nipple when I get home. Babies are clever like that.

I think the OP sounds really sensible. Trust the good old mothers' instinct. I always thought of my old Irish granny bringing up 6 kids in 2 rooms, drawers for cribs etc. They all grew up healthy and strong. They were fed and loved. End.

Bear, I agree with you on pretty much all that. Most breastfeeding helpers, peer supporters, whatever the organisation they trained with calls them, have had problems breastfeeding. I also went to an NCT anti natal breastfeeding class where we were told that if the latch is right it won't hurt and even when directly asked the tutor wouldn't discuss potential issues. I get they don't want to put people off / make them fearful it'll be really difficult when it might not be, but it meant I was woefully unprepared for issues feeding my profoundly tongue tied baby. I think there's a balance, and I'm not sure we've found it, between preparing people and scaring the shit out of them/ pissing them off before they've even started. And I am convinced that the major issue is lack of breastfeeding support post natal my. But there are benefits to breastfeeding at an individual level that even I, as a passionately pro breastfeeding person, didn't know about before I attended training. It does reduce the risk in the mother of certain types of cancer. It does reduce the risk of the baby getting certain gastric and respiratory infections. And a bunch of other things. It's just that, like anything else that reduces risk, you won't always see it at an individual level. Just because my mother put me to sleep on my front and I didn't die of SIDS doesn't mean it isn't less likely that a baby will die of SIDS if they sleep on their back, and that therefore we should put babies to sleep on their backs. We tend not to question that so much, but formula feeding vs breast feeding, in the developed world at least, isn't usually a case of like or death. But that doesn't mean that every mother shouldn't be given the opportunity to make an informed choice, and that means putting the facts into a leaflet to give them, and in a climate where breastfeeding rates are some of the lowest in the world, I can see why the language in that leaflet might be on the blunter side.

Thank you kenneth
I'm trying to remain as calm about the whole thing as possible.
The thing that worries me the most about being a new mum is PND. I am prone to anxiety and if I don't keep it in check, on my bad days I can spiral in to a pit of self loathing and hatred even smacking myself over the head because I didn't manage to clean the bathroom that day or I fucked up the dinner. So God knows what I could be like if I can't BF for whatever reason!

Honestly. You don't have to make up the day's bottles of boiling hot milk and flash cool. Just sterilise the powder with a small amount of boiling water and make up to the the correct concentration with cold water. I did use preboiled and cooled water when the boy was very young, I kept a container in the fridge so I could make a fresh bottle immediately and make up.

After a couple of months? Made a day's worth upfront.

The formula isn't sterile and people are usually not thorough enough with washing hands. So formula has to hit water at 70 degrees. Any hotter and the Good bacteria is killed. Any cooler and the bad bacteria survives.

Slightly off thread, but I just wanted to point out that temperature of 70 degrees doesn't selectively kill 'bad' bacteria while letting 'good' bacteria survive. It really doesn't.

The most important thing about making up a bottle is for the bottle to be sterilized. If you are sure the bottle is clean, you can make up formula with warm water and feed straight away.

I think with mixed feeding you do need to be mentally prepared for it not to work.

It didn't work for us, and once you've introduced bottles (and the baby prefers them because it's less work) it's all but impossible to go back to fully breastfed, as your supply adjusts quickly. Then you get into that cycle where your baby wants fed, is screaming, and formula is there..

So i'd always recommend mixed feeding with the caveat that if it doesn't work, it will almost certainly end up ff.

YABU Op

I was given that magazine and I loved it! It's really baby focused, talks about what's normal in terms of feeding and sleep etc, and it gives FACTS about breastfeeding. All the points you've mentioned ARE true, there is no escaping it.

I am someone for whom bf did not work out as intended. I've had 2 tongue tied babies, and low supply both times. I fed my eldest til 2.5 and I'm feeding my youngest at the moment. But both have needed formula to keep them alive, despite me doing everything within my power to make breastfeeding work (and I really genuinely do mean everything).

But my feeling sad about my inability to exclusively breastfeed my children does not make the facts about the benefits of breastfeeding untrue. Women considering their choices need real information. We shouldn't be down playing it in case people feel bad. That's not going to help increase bf rates at all.

And to all the posters who say by the time they are 5 there will be no difference, that's demonstrably untrue. Of course I can't look at my eldest's pre school class and pick out the breastfed and formula fed children. But on a population level the health benefits are very clear. It is beneficial, and formula feeding does carry risks, both immediate and long term.

ethel my dear. The baby will not be in the bathroom for weeks. Dinner can wait. You will be finding your priorities change, and it won't be towards culinary excellence. It'll be is the baby fed? Clean? Good. Now I'm going to sleep and sod the house

I remember being in labour second time round and asking the midwife if I needed milk brought to the hospital right then for baby or if some would be provided on the ward. I got an absolutely ridiculous lecture, she didn't pause for breath for about 5mins about how I was horrible if I didn't even attempt to breastfeed.
When she was finished I looked at her with as much disgust as I felt and asked if she'd even read my maternity notes. Clear and bold on the first page stated medical issues and that I was on lifelong medication that prevents me from breastfeeding. Plus I was withdrawing from another medication which they expected me and baby to be admitted for. She walked out of the room without a word.
I requested (and got) another midwife. She was awful, so judgemental and rude.
Breast is brilliant. I breastfed my first. But it's not always possible and there should not be a guilt trip put on those who cannot or choose not to. Inform people, but don't ram down their throats.

I was told that tap water had bacteria in it that babies under 1 couldn't deal with so it had to be boiled. So that's not true?

The most important thing about making up a bottle is for the bottle to be sterilized. If you are sure the bottle is clean, you can make up formula with warm water and feed straight away.

Also need to pick up on this; this is not true!

Formula powder is not sterile. It MUST come into contact with water above 70 degrees to kill off bacteria. Babies have died for want of doing this. Using warm water is not an acceptable preparation method.

I hate all this breast is best bullshit. From what I've seen it's not true. They don't balance the facts with how many babies are killing with sleep deprived parents at the wheel, rolling on them etc from believing breast is best rather than formula which helps them sleep much better.

That leaflet wouldn't bother me at all. As PP have said, the NHS has a remit to educate. I speak as someone who only breastfed my first for a few days and bottlefed my second from birth through choice. Don't regret my decisions as absolutely best for me and my children at the time but I wouldn't try to deny the fact that breast is overall more beneficial. Then again, I liked Emma's diary so probably my opinion is not to be trusted .

DD had jaundice and I was practically ordered to give her formula in the hospital, although I was already breastfeeding. I know now this is not guidelines but I didn't dare refuse then..

I then tried to express. The hospital expressing room was covered with posters similar to the OPs description. I remember sitting there in tears, I wanted to breastfeed, was capable of breastfeeding but the hospital first stopped me from doing so and then warned me of the dire consequences. And what was the point of having posters like that in the expressing room?

I did wean dd back off the bottle onto breast when we got out of hospital but still angry and disappointed that she didn't get the 6months exclusive bf.

Although you make a good point AtSea. I'd be interested to see if those statistics are ever looked at in terms of breastfeeding.

Thank you Chevy - as someone who obsessively researched formula feeding, and how to do it with minimal risk, It is interesting to see how false information about the safety of making up bottles is passed on so easily. It's NOT safe to add formula to water cooler than 70 degrees. The formula is NOT sterile. Once the tin is opened and hands and gone in and out etc etc there are all sorts of germs going in there are mixing with milk.
Making up bottles in advance is recommended only as an emergency measure by the NHS and not for everyday. (Although this is because people have left them too long and used ones that are days old from the fridge. Obviously if the midwives were allowed to say that they must be used within 12 hours and kept at 5 degrees in back if fridge this might be avoided). Midwives need to explain why the guidelines are there so people can make informed choices.

I am so glad though to hear that other midwives have been so helpful to people formula feeding and given correct and helpful advice.

And OP sorry to derail your thread slightly. Good luck with whatever feeding choice you want to go for and enjoy your lovely baby when he/she arrives.

Yes, agree. You must introduce boiling water to formula.

It just doesn't have to be the full ratio.

So to be clear : for a very young baby. I boiled and cooled a lot of water. Kept it in the fridge for up to 12 hours.

Baby wakes up, wants a bottle. I add 5 scoops to a previously sterilised bottle (still in the microwave thingy) . Add boiling water 30ml. Stir. Add the remaining 120 ml of water I've stored. Bottle perfect temperature. Baby gets bottle within a minute, none of this running under the tap for ten minutes, by which time the child has fully woken up. Nightmare.

I have that book/leaflet OP. Honestly, I found it informative, interesting and helpful. I'm going to have a flick through tomorrow because I don't remember there being anything more than some of the different stages of milk production, pictures of how to get your baby to latch and different bf positions. And then all the LLL numbers etc.

(I was given a copy at about 24 weeks, then when I was struggling really badly ((undiagnosed tongue tie) one of the kindest, most gentle and wonderful woman I have ever met helped me. She's was part of this booklet so I'm probably bias.)

Don't see the problem with the publication at all. It is not pushy

I have had breast cancer and had a double mastectomy. Having been told I wouldn't be able to have children as the chemo had left me infertile I was over the moon to get pregnant last year. I had my baby in January. Every appointment I was bombarded with 'breast is best' - but I have no breasts. When he was born I got tutted and lectured by the midwives and health visitors when they saw me bottle feeding. I understand that breast is definitely preferable, but I think there should be some consideration for those who can't - or don't want to - do it. I know my case is extreme, but I have many friends who struggled but felt bullied into continuing.

I think I was very lucky with my midwives. Not one argument from any of them during my latest pregnancy, or even when I asked them to go get a bottle of ready made Cow & Gate as I held 5 minute old DD2 in my arms. Would have been very unhappy to have been lectured.

Completely right, OP: propaganda.
Like you, I had planned to breastfeed. My DD didn't latch, I had midwives, health visitors and even a breastfeeding counsellor at home. Baby seemed to do it right but the milk wasn't enough. I tried expressing and couldn't get to fill the bottom of the bottle. I got domperidon for milk production. Nothing. But I insisted, because of all the pamphlets and all the guilt. On day 15th of so, midwife comes home to weight baby and tells me, literally, to forget about breastfeeding and go asap to supermarket to get formula and a bottle. She wasn't leaving until we fed baby with it. My DD had lost way too much.weight because she wasn't getting milk. We didn't know, she was my first, I assumed all babies cried often, I didn't have friends or family with babies, so I couldn't compare. Looking at the pictures now, I feel horrible. My child was starving and I didn't know it. She was bottle fed since then. We had to keep a diary with every feed and weight her every few days. With my second, DS, I tried day one. Same issues, nothing was coming out and my niples were bleeding within half a day, baby crying inconsolably. I gave him the bottle straight away. I felt depressed and guilty with my first, I thought I wasn't going to bond, I was really in a bad state looking at other mums breastfeeding and there I was making bottles at 3am... But it's not right. Some people can't breastfeed. Some people haven't got enough milk, I'm fed up of people saying it's a myth because it happened to me, the milk didn't come up, my breasts never filled up, I tried pills and I had about 5 different people trying to help. Other people are on medication and shouldn't breastfeed. The amount of guilt and pressure that mums are subjected to, is not right. I complained to NHS when I got over it, only to be told that my DD had tongue tie above everything else, undiagnosed, and that made it even more difficult. I kept having to excuse myself to everyone too, when they asked or looked at me preparing bottles. It's very wrong. As if we don't have enough pressure

Jedimum poor you!