To think the 'information' the midwife gave me is almost propaganda?

[ethelfleda]

Recently had 24 week appointment. This is our first. Midwife asked if I had thought about feeding yet. I said I plan on breastfeeding. I say 'plan' because (as with everything else baby related) I am trying to keep an open mind as from what I hear, things don't always go according to plan! So I will try hard to breastfeed but I won't beat myself up if it doesn't work out for us.
She handed me a 20 odd page pamphlet thing and said it contained useful information on caring for a new born.

I started to read it today thinking it would be basic NHS info on how to feed, wind and change your baby etc. It was actually 20 odd pages of info telling me basically that if i don't breastfeed, my baby is more likely to develop cancer (as am I) as well as be admitted to hospital in their first year of life etc etc among other very scary statistics.
The language used was shocking IMO! And seemingly designed to make women who don't/can't breastfeed feel awful! Has anyone else had this information handed to them and thought it was way over the top??

As to the number of women that CAN breastfeed, I think that we can use the figures from Norway as a guide.

Only 1% of infants had never received any breast milk with the rates of any breastfeeding 95% at four weeks of age

So we can say that about 95% of women CAN manage to feed. If they want to.

That isnhwkpfil naked as me and my baby were in that 95% who could feed very well mechanically or technically or whatever the right phrase is.

But there's more to it than just the mother being physically able to BF.

Well its about 1.7/10,000 if you group all the metabolic disorders where milk cannot be digested.

I don't just mean those though - I mean all the co dictionary that affect the baby that mean they cannot breast feed.

Oh my this phone tonight!

conditions

Yes, but I was answering assertion:

No, we don't know what proportion of mothers literally cannot BF

I think we do know. The numbers of women who DO bf up to 4 weeks in Norway if 95% so this suggests that this number of women who CAN physically and want to. This is suggests that 95% of UK women could, if they wanted to. In addition that 5% will include Norwegian women who could, but babies couldn't or they didn't want to or were very ill. So actually the number of women who physically CAN is likely to be higher (98%)

MyChild The number of babies that cannot digest milk is very, very low. So all together it is about 1.7/10,000 including all the disorders of metabolism which become more and more rare as the list goes on.
I gave you the other numbers of correctable disorders such as tongue tie and cleft palate. These are the commonest and other again are rarer as you go down the list.

In DD's case she felt no hunger due to mucus in her tummy (took 2 days to clear) and then she was so sore from the forceps (the impact of which can be seen nearly 7 years in as big dents in her skull and jaw ) that sucking was too painful.

Couple all of that with my huge boobs, flat nipples and what I now know is a very low lip tie and there was no way she was going to feed normally.

Titty that sounds awful.

In Norway, I guess that could put you in that 5% that weren't feeding by 4 weeks. But maybe they are more on the case than our overstretched NHS? I think we have the right to know!

Naked - we really don't know. We can get an idea from looking at other societies, as I said. And not being able to breastfeed in the sense of not producing sufficient milk for the baby to thrive is rare in places where almost literally everyone breastfeeds - really higher than even Norway. But as we know and as you have emphasised, bf is more than being able to produce sufficient milk - you have to have a baby who can get it. And even more than this, you have to have a setting where a mother and baby are enabled to do it. That's a physical setting and a cultural or social setting. It is for example almost impossible to breastfeed if you are 17, all your friends think it's weird and your baby's father thinks it's disgusting. That's a stereotype, and many teen mothers are great bf fans - but I have had many contacts with the stereotype. She might well make milk but she probably literally can't bf.

Naked I think we need to note that of the 95 per cent of Norwegian mothers bf at four weeks some are giving formula as well. Better comparisons are true hunter gatherer or other non western settings where formula does not exist - and while it is far from uncommon for even tiny babies to have other stuff as well as breastmilk, they don't have large volumes. Insufficient milk is very rare.

I suppose the point is that if we know that almost all women/ babies can feed physically we can conclude that the reasons women are not BF in the UK are societal and if we know this we can better address the issues.
Lots of women seem people think they physically can't:some find it yucky, some need treatment for thrush on the nipples, some just don't know how to tell if the baby is getting enough.
PND is a real problem not well addressed in the uk
Women need more support and men and women more education to increase BF rates.

Naked I think your response to me shows the issue.

You obviously feel you have me facts and figures.

I'm sitting here in tears wondering what I did wrong in how I worded my questions to not get flowers and sympathy and treated the same as titty in reply.

I get that it is my issue but it also shows part of the problem. If you're going to give sympathy and emotional support you need to give it to everyone not just some.

Heres some from me MyChild. As long as dc are thriving and the parents are happy then we are doing a brilliant job. There are pros and cons of bf and ff.

Ignore the more self righteous posters. I wonder if they all have healthy BMI's, don't smoke, don't drink (as alcohol increases breast cancer risk so best be tee total) exercise each week and eat 5portions of fruit a day. If not, why not? Do they also think it's 'sad' or people are 'ignorant' who don't?

I totally agree Tiktok, here here. Naked*, the blame shoukd nit be placed solely on the mother, not wanting to, can if they want to, it's not as easy as putting baby on the boob and way you go for some women. When I did my Parentcraft classes when I was pregnant with dd, I was led to believe. The problems that women can encounter in the beginning stages of bf, and problems and where to go for support, or who was available to help, was not addressed. So when I had dd, and she was not matching properly, and loosing weight. I was railroaded by Midwife to giving dd formula, as I was worried about her declining health. No NHS support. It transpired later, dd has ASD and learning difficulties, she displayed this as a baby, which would make bf difficult and stressful for her. With ds after her, I did my research, though he had to be hospitalised due to severe jaundice, tgat ruined bf. I was able to use my wonderful hospital grade Spectrum electric breast pump, and give him my milk for 9 months until my supply just went.

There are other psycho social and also biological factors responsible for a mother breastfeeding or not. The sole blame should not be placed on the mother, that's unfair. Mabey Norway has a lot of Breastfeeding support for mother, before baby is born, Mabey the support is much better than ours. A bf health visitor came to help my bf ds, but she had never had chikdren herself, and obviously never breastfed. So how is she going to help. She could not. But thank goodness for my breast pump.

I suppose the point is that if we know that almost all women/ babies can feed physically we can conclude that the reasons women are not BF in the UK are societal and if we know this we can better address the issues.

Yeah everyone whose baby ended up in hospital on this thread is making it up . The societal problem is judgement of women whatever they do so your attitude will help no one, however 'well meaning' you are going to claim to be.

Therefore its all well and good giving out a leaflet, that is no help to a pregnant women, how about running support groups for pregnant women, supporting them with breastfeeding, also explaining the difficulties that can be encountered, and where to go for Free help if bf is going wrong. Not all women can afford NCT or to hire a lactation consultant. That was never explained to me when I had my first child. So I had no idea where to go, plus I was in pain with an infected episiotomy, a baby that would not stop crying, dh did not have a clue, and and I had my in laws staying with me, providing me with more stress. So after a week of trying to bf dd, I had to follow NHS Midwife advise, and put dd on formula, or risk hospital.

Just to point out, a baby can end up in hospital because of societal reasons -- e.g. a lack of breastfeeding support before that point; HCP not picking up problems (tongue tie, metabolic disorder) as promptly as ideally needed. Just because an outcome is medical does not mean the issue didn't have a societal cause or contributing factor.

Nobody is diminishing the experiences of posters on this thread who've had difficulties of whatever sort, or who've ended up needing medical care.

Also just to reiterate that the UK growth charts used currently are meant to cover both formula fed and breastfed babies. Who have different 'normal' weight gain trajectories. So there is still clearly an issue.

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/Pages/baby-weight-and-height.aspx

I haven't read the whole threa because it os so long, but nutritionally formula contains everything your baby needs. The point is breastfeeding has numerous additional benefits. Did you knwow tge UK bas the lowest rates of breastfeeding in the developed world. Surely you can see that it is important to the NHS to promote breastfeeding because it not only has all these additional benefits but also can prevent and diminish a lot of other health conditions for mums and babies which in turn will save the nhs money in treatment. It is sad that you feel it was propaganda, but why shouldn't we actively promote breastfeeding and talk about its benefits to try and get more mums to give it a go. It is also so important that mums are educated. It is extremely rare for mums to not produce enough milk, but consistently many mums think this because they don't get the advice and support.

Aeroflotgirl we have antenatal and postnatal support groups in our county run by breastfeeding peer supporters for exactly this. I guess it depends on your county.

I agree NotMy, ff babies tend to be heavier. So placing the blame only on the poor mother, not trying hard enough, and can bf if she wants to, is very unhelpful. HCP involved in the baby and pregnant women are responsible. That is why a stupid leaflet is going to do nothing to promote bf, its will only seek to put mothers backs up, and make them irritated. What good is a leaflet, if there is no face to face practical bf support. OK so your meant to get the leaflet read it, and just get on with it. Not helpful at all!!!

Country are you from Tiger, I am from the UK, when I had dd 10 and ds 5, there was no such thing in my area at the time, I don't know now. But judging by the op getting just a leaflet, I guess nothing has changed.

When ds was born, there was a hospital lactation consultant, but she did not do home visits. The support once you left hospital was not good, I had a breastfeeding health visitor to help me, but as I said, she did not have kids herself, let alone bf, and was not much use.